Was This Enlightenment? How Could It Be Enlightenment If It "passed?"

[Marina]

 

Hello, everyone. I would like to share something that has happened in the past few days. I’ve been reading and watching a lot of Byron Katie and Rupert Spira in the past  weeks. Their teachings were my main focus. All was going well and I was pretty happy and content with everything in life. Things seemed to go smoothly.

Then, on Oct. 26th around 3 am, something absolutely phenomenal happened. I was watching one of Rupert’s videos, and what he said just really GOT to me. He mentioned how time was just a concept and how all there ever is, is just an eternal present moment. How everything has always been, is and always will be just pure awareness. How all we ever know is just our experience, which is just pure knowing itself. Concepts are superimposed by our thoughts.

All of that just hit me like a truck. I’ve heard all of that before, (probably even saw this video before, not sure) but at THAT moment it felt like I got it on a molecular level, it had nothing to do with my mind’s understanding of it. Tears started to pour out of my eyes uncontrollably. It felt like coming home. Not even coming, just realizing that I’ve always been home, just haven’t noticed it. It was like recognizing myself for the first time. I went to sleep, but I didn’t fall asleep right away since this “understanding” kept passing through me. I couldn’t stop crying, I was just blown away by how simple and easy everything was. I realized that everything in life is okay, nothing is ever wrong or out of order. There was no good or bad. There was not even a “me.” I fell asleep in total peace.

During the next two days, I experienced constant, absolute and pure bliss. Not even “I experienced”… It felt like I was bliss, peace, and happiness themselves. Here are the details of that experience:

-       This moment (or any moment ever) cannot be “bettered” in any way. It’s absolute perfection just as it is. I felt no desire to change anything about any moment or experience. At all.

-       That being said, whenever I felt like performing any action, it was extremely organic. I didn’t “think” about it in the traditional sense. I just did it. Whenever I felt it. It didn’t feel like I was doing something. It was like I was the action itself, the process itself. There was no “Marina is doing this.” There were no two things. There was just unity of everything. When I didn’t feel like doing anything, I’d just sit, calm and relaxed. I “knew” that I’d make an action whenever it was needed. I knew that nothing “had to be done.” So there was this freedom of doing or not doing anything I (or anyone else) wanted. There was just this incredible trust in life and experience, this beautiful freedom.

-       I wasn’t experiencing time. At all. I saw how the concept of time was a complete fiction and realized that nothing ever (including the fictional character of “me”) is a part of it. There is just eternal now. That’s all there is of “time.”

-       I did not distinguish between “others” and “myself" or "this object" and "that object." Isolating anything from the totality and unity of experience seemed crazy. Literally. Everything was just awareness. Whole and perfect.

-       At one moment, I saw that my own body was just as much of a conceptual object as any other object in my experience. I felt like I was not in control of it, like it was doing whatever had to be done on its own. “Marina” was never in control of it. In fact, I didn’t even feel like I was “Marina” or anyone else. All of those “me” concepts felt like a giant pile of horseshit. It seemed so ridiculous how I ever believed any of it, that I would just laugh in midair sometimes.

-       Aside from laughing in midair, I’d cry in midair too. I would sometimes get just so overwhelmed by beauty and perfection of everything, that I would cry uncontrollably in the middle of doing something or just while sitting still. I’ve never experienced such happiness. At those moments, I felt that it was coming from being one with everything. I saw how there was never any separation, how separation is just impossible (no matter what a person believes) and how the separation is just a concept created by the mind.

-       I'd stare at an "object" / hear a sound / see something and feel like I was experiencing it for the first time (like, there was no story attached to it) and like it came to my awareness out of nowhere, (although I've seen it before).

-       I was contempt with what things were and how life was at any given moment. Constantly.

-       Every single action was extremely mindful.

-       “Time” seemed slower. I was experiencing a sort of like “slow motion” all the time. Even when I was in a middle of a busy street, with tons of cars and people around me moving very fast, I felt this peace and stillness on the “inside” and the “outside.” It felt just mind blowing and natural at the same time.

-       Like I said, doing anything and not doing anything felt equally comfortable. Everything felt comfortable. However, my favorite form of "leisure" was to just sit and do nothing.

-       All “human interaction” was effortless, organic, fearless, loving and beautiful. Lots and lots of love and understanding in every interaction I’ve had at that time. On “both sides” (“me” and any “other person”).

-       I was okay with dying at any given moment. There was just no fear of death.

All of the above lasted for about two days. Honestly, it felt like enlightenment. And when I thought to myself, “Is this what enlightenment feels like?” I’d feel like I didn’t care. Enlightenment or not, I didn’t care. I was just living and enjoying it fully and wholeheartedly.

Then, at one moment, (this evening) I felt like it was ending. Which completely shocked and terrified me at first. I was thinking, “How can this end? With no time, how can anything begin or end? How can awareness stop recognizing itself if awareness is all there ever is?” It felt like I was kicked out of heaven. The separation… It was so scary and painful. During the first 15-20 minutes of feeling this, I’d try to “hold” it, return back to true reality. I now see how I was trying to do this with my mind. At that moment it felt like my mind would come back to awareness since it already experienced it. But I see now how the mind has nothing to do with knowing awareness. Awareness knows itself. So I can never "come back" to it with my mind.

It took me about 30-40 minutes to come to terms that I was “Marina” again and not absolute bliss That means, to stop scrolling through books and depths of my thoughts like a fanatic in search of an “answer.” It just suddenly hit me, “What’s not okay with this situation? What’s wrong with how things are now? Yes, you’re feeling like ‘Marina’ again and what’s so bad about it? What are you afraid of? Why can't you just let go of your desire to hold  on to that 'bliss' and let things be how they are right now?” Once those thoughts crossed my mind, I calmed down. Absolute bliss didn’t come back but I stopped feeling terror and pain, which felt nice  Now, as I'm finishing this post, I feel calm and centered. Like, I see the apparent difference in the two states of being, but at the same time, I don't feel like I am the same person that I was "before the bliss." It's hard to explain. It's like something, some part of me changed permanently. I cannot know for sure, of course, just saying what I'm feeling at this moment.

And then I decided to post here since I have no one else to ask for an opinion. No one in my “real life” does or is even interested in this kind of work. What do you think? What was that bliss? What was this that came after the bliss? How do you think I should go on from now? I’m going on an Enlightenment Intensive retreat in a couple of weeks (my first ever meditation retreat), which I think should be very beneficial.

Just a side note, I don’t have a constant meditation practice and I have never tried any psychedelics (not that I don’t want to though lol).

I’m sorry for so much writing, but I just wanted to explain everything as best as I possibly could. Thanks for reading and the potential feedback!  

 

[Leo Gura]

Very very typical experience on this path.

The good news is, it's just the tip of the iceberg of what's possible. There's WAY deeper to go!

Yeah, it didn't stick. Because you got caught in phenomena and still don't really know what you are.

Only thing to do is keep at it.

Keep probing: "What am I?!"

The trap is that enlightenment is not an experience and it's not bliss. The bliss is phenomena which isn't what you actually are. Don't get seduced by the bliss. I know it's hard cause it's a fucking awesome experience and it feels so good. But that's just a feeling. Make sure you're getting to the EXISTENTIAL root of things, not just psychological or emotional. You have to grasp what reality actually is, EXISTENTIALLY!

Even if it did stick, there would still be WAY more to grasp. So don't assume you can just get it and then retire to the Bahamas.

It also helps to become conscious right now of the fact that you can never lose what you actually are. It's ever-present. Yes, it's infuriating to hear that.

Notice how there's an attachment to the bliss and fear of loss. That needs to be worked through cause it's delusion.

[Marina]

@Leo Gura 

Thank you, Leo.

Yes, I can absolutely see how there is (and was) this attachment to bliss and fear of losing it. Which in itself creates a duality.

This just showed me that I need to go deeper, that there's much more to work through. And that I literally don't know the nature of reality, the truth. If I did know it... Well, I'd just know. That's all I can say at this point.

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It also helps to become conscious right now of the fact that you can never lose what you actually are. It's ever-present.

 

Yes, absolutely! That's what eventually got me centered and calm. That I can't loose what I actually am. This is what inspires me to stay on this path.

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, Marina said:

Yes, absolutely! That's what eventually got me centered and calm. That I can't loose what I actually am. This is what inspires me to stay on this path.

You can't gain it either

[Marina]

@Leo Gura

Indeed, I can't... "Try to stand up and take a step towards yourself" lol

[Joel3102]

@Marina I fucking love Rupert Spira. His demeanour is just mesmerising. 

[Bob84]

@Marina What worked for me is to be brutaly honest with myself and letting go.

Enlightenment after a awakening experiance is for lack of better words a huge mindfuck.

Ego loves the concept of enlightenment. It wants to be special. Its like heroin. Marina doesnt exist, she is just a character that you made up. So is enlightenment. Hope that makes sence. 

[Marina]

@Joel3102 It always fascinates me how clear, pure and real his communication is. Not many teachers are able to pass the truth in such a clear manner.

@Bob84 Thank you. Yes, enlightenment is just as much of a concept of the mind as the "me" concept. Leo was absolutely right when he said to look for the existential nature of reality, for the ultimate truth. It honestly just baffles me how easy it is for "my mind" to completely forget about this at moments and attach to another concept. In a way, it kinda makes me stand in awe of the abilities of the mind... Like, how did it do that again? o__0

Edited October 29, 2016 by Marina

[WelcometoReality]

@Marina Good! Don't try to hold onto the experience and don't chase it trying to gain it back. It will only distance you from it. Whatever is happening is happening, sometimes it will feel like you are very caught up in the personal and sometimes it will be effortlessly blissful. You cannot control it. Does relaxing into it or leaning back into it make any sense to you?

[Marina]

@WelcometoReality Are you asking, whether I naturally relax into it or whether I am trying to make sense of it (of whatever I am experiencing) ?

I don't think I completely understand your question : )

[WelcometoReality]

@Marina Nevermind. Nothing important.

[jennywise]

20 hours ago, Marina said:

 

Hello, everyone. I would like to share something that has happened in the past few days. I’ve been reading and watching a lot of Byron Katie and Rupert Spira in the past  weeks. Their teachings were my main focus. All was going well and I was pretty happy and content with everything in life. Things seemed to go smoothly.

Then, on Oct. 26th around 3 am, something absolutely phenomenal happened. I was watching one of Rupert’s videos, and what he said just really GOT to me. He mentioned how time was just a concept and how all there ever is, is just an eternal present moment. How everything has always been, is and always will be just pure awareness. How all we ever know is just our experience, which is just pure knowing itself. Concepts are superimposed by our thoughts.

All of that just hit me like a truck. I’ve heard all of that before, (probably even saw this video before, not sure) but at THAT moment it felt like I got it on a molecular level, it had nothing to do with my mind’s understanding of it. Tears started to pour out of my eyes uncontrollably. It felt like coming home. Not even coming, just realizing that I’ve always been home, just haven’t noticed it. It was like recognizing myself for the first time. I went to sleep, but I didn’t fall asleep right away since this “understanding” kept passing through me. I couldn’t stop crying, I was just blown away by how simple and easy everything was. I realized that everything in life is okay, nothing is ever wrong or out of order. There was no good or bad. There was not even a “me.” I fell asleep in total peace.

During the next two days, I experienced constant, absolute and pure bliss. Not even “I experienced”… It felt like I was bliss, peace, and happiness themselves. Here are the details of that experience:

-       This moment (or any moment ever) cannot be “bettered” in any way. It’s absolute perfection just as it is. I felt no desire to change anything about any moment or experience. At all.

-       That being said, whenever I felt like performing any action, it was extremely organic. I didn’t “think” about it in the traditional sense. I just did it. Whenever I felt it. It didn’t feel like I was doing something. It was like I was the action itself, the process itself. There was no “Marina is doing this.” There were no two things. There was just unity of everything. When I didn’t feel like doing anything, I’d just sit, calm and relaxed. I “knew” that I’d make an action whenever it was needed. I knew that nothing “had to be done.” So there was this freedom of doing or not doing anything I (or anyone else) wanted. There was just this incredible trust in life and experience, this beautiful freedom.

-       I wasn’t experiencing time. At all. I saw how the concept of time was a complete fiction and realized that nothing ever (including the fictional character of “me”) is a part of it. There is just eternal now. That’s all there is of “time.”

-       I did not distinguish between “others” and “myself" or "this object" and "that object." Isolating anything from the totality and unity of experience seemed crazy. Literally. Everything was just awareness. Whole and perfect.

-       At one moment, I saw that my own body was just as much of a conceptual object as any other object in my experience. I felt like I was not in control of it, like it was doing whatever had to be done on its own. “Marina” was never in control of it. In fact, I didn’t even feel like I was “Marina” or anyone else. All of those “me” concepts felt like a giant pile of horseshit. It seemed so ridiculous how I ever believed any of it, that I would just laugh in midair sometimes.

-       Aside from laughing in midair, I’d cry in midair too. I would sometimes get just so overwhelmed by beauty and perfection of everything, that I would cry uncontrollably in the middle of doing something or just while sitting still. I’ve never experienced such happiness. At those moments, I felt that it was coming from being one with everything. I saw how there was never any separation, how separation is just impossible (no matter what a person believes) and how the separation is just a concept created by the mind.

-       I'd stare at an "object" / hear a sound / see something and feel like I was experiencing it for the first time (like, there was no story attached to it) and like it came to my awareness out of nowhere, (although I've seen it before).

-       I was contempt with what things were and how life was at any given moment. Constantly.

-       Every single action was extremely mindful.

-       “Time” seemed slower. I was experiencing a sort of like “slow motion” all the time. Even when I was in a middle of a busy street, with tons of cars and people around me moving very fast, I felt this peace and stillness on the “inside” and the “outside.” It felt just mind blowing and natural at the same time.

-       Like I said, doing anything and not doing anything felt equally comfortable. Everything felt comfortable. However, my favorite form of "leisure" was to just sit and do nothing.

-       All “human interaction” was effortless, organic, fearless, loving and beautiful. Lots and lots of love and understanding in every interaction I’ve had at that time. On “both sides” (“me” and any “other person”).

-       I was okay with dying at any given moment. There was just no fear of death.

All of the above lasted for about two days. Honestly, it felt like enlightenment. And when I thought to myself, “Is this what enlightenment feels like?” I’d feel like I didn’t care. Enlightenment or not, I didn’t care. I was just living and enjoying it fully and wholeheartedly.

Then, at one moment, (this evening) I felt like it was ending. Which completely shocked and terrified me at first. I was thinking, “How can this end? With no time, how can anything begin or end? How can awareness stop recognizing itself if awareness is all there ever is?” It felt like I was kicked out of heaven. The separation… It was so scary and painful. During the first 15-20 minutes of feeling this, I’d try to “hold” it, return back to true reality. I now see how I was trying to do this with my mind. At that moment it felt like my mind would come back to awareness since it already experienced it. But I see now how the mind has nothing to do with knowing awareness. Awareness knows itself. So I can never "come back" to it with my mind.

It took me about 30-40 minutes to come to terms that I was “Marina” again and not absolute bliss That means, to stop scrolling through books and depths of my thoughts like a fanatic in search of an “answer.” It just suddenly hit me, “What’s not okay with this situation? What’s wrong with how things are now? Yes, you’re feeling like ‘Marina’ again and what’s so bad about it? What are you afraid of? Why can't you just let go of your desire to hold  on to that 'bliss' and let things be how they are right now?” Once those thoughts crossed my mind, I calmed down. Absolute bliss didn’t come back but I stopped feeling terror and pain, which felt nice  Now, as I'm finishing this post, I feel calm and centered. Like, I see the apparent difference in the two states of being, but at the same time, I don't feel like I am the same person that I was "before the bliss." It's hard to explain. It's like something, some part of me changed permanently. I cannot know for sure, of course, just saying what I'm feeling at this moment.

And then I decided to post here since I have no one else to ask for an opinion. No one in my “real life” does or is even interested in this kind of work. What do you think? What was that bliss? What was this that came after the bliss? How do you think I should go on from now? I’m going on an Enlightenment Intensive retreat in a couple of weeks (my first ever meditation retreat), which I think should be very beneficial.

Just a side note, I don’t have a constant meditation practice and I have never tried any psychedelics (not that I don’t want to though lol).

I’m sorry for so much writing, but I just wanted to explain everything as best as I possibly could. Thanks for reading and the potential feedback!  

 

Hi Marina! I just wanted to say thank you for putting so succinctly part of what happened to me- except that my experience didnt include as much- no human interaction, for example, because it lasted about 5 minutes for me- I felt like i must have felt as a very young infant- nothing had any labels or conditions, but because it was so fleeting I couldn't get my head around how an dip in that state of mind- (in my head I keep referring to it as noumena- for lack of a better term) could end- but because it did & because it was so brief - until I read your description just now I had decided that I had imagined it- or that my sadistic mind was toying with me. Now Im the one with the waterworks on because now I know, theres no way I could have imagined it- thank you.

Edited October 29, 2016 by jennywise

[Marina]

@jennywise You're welcome!

I don't know if what I'm about to say is going to sound optimistic or depressing, but... It is what it is. I've felt this "Have I imagined this / made this up?" feeling multiple times since yesterday. Seriously. It's like the mind is trying to erase, devalue what has "happened." Like, "Was it really that amazing? Was it really bliss? Or did you just make it up?" In a way, I kinda like that it's happening. Because it doesn't let me get attached to this "past experience of bliss," so I don't start chasing it. But at the same time, some part of me is saying, "It was real. This was a unique experience, I have never experienced such pure, crystallized joy for such a long period of time. Yes, it was an experience only, not pure truth. But it doesn't mean that it hasn't happened." So in case you thought that you started to feel like you had imagined your experience because it lasted for 5 minutes... Well, that's probably not the case... Mine lasted for 2 days and I still got those feelings lol

I just randomly stumbled upon a video, in which a woman described a state similar to that state that I had experienced. She didn't go into as much detail as I did, so I can't know for sure we both experienced exactly the same things. And Rupert "explained" what happened to her in a brilliant way; that's exactly how I see it now. I'll post the video here, maybe it would be helpful for you or whomever else. The woman's description of her experience starts at 8:20, followed by Rupert's comments on it.

 

Edited October 30, 2016 by Marina

[Bob84]

Nice vid.

Welcome to addicts anonymous .

Theres the mindfuck. Now realize that that exp has no value, no meaning, and is therefore pointless. As its only our egos that attach those labels.

You obviously cry at its beauty. How amazing it is. But its nothing!? Let go and stop charishing those opinions. As you are only blocking what is and has always been there.

 

 

[Alex K]

@Marina Could you kindly point at the vid you where watching please 

Very happy for you, keep going!

[Marina]

@Alex K