Christopher Hitchens

[Preety_India]

4 minutes ago, Dumuzzi said:

Having a bit of imperial nostalgia, eh?

LOL. I was never interested in imperialism and monarchy. I usually saw them as evil. But these days, the Monarchy is constantly in the news because of Markle interview, I thought this was a good chance to dig into the British Monarchy, although any knowledge of the British Royals is quite rare given their eternal presence most that we ever hear of are just family dramas and scandals which is quite disappointing, the monarchy should really be about more than that, and maybe it's my own delusional fantasies that the Monarchy should represent as a saviour of the public, especially in the light of how Prime Ministers and Presidents are popcorn regular run of the mill politicians who hardly care about the welfare of the public, in such circumstances, the public is more likely to steer their hopes towards celebrities, pop icons, gurus, royals in the expectation that these figureheads would resonate with the public sentiment. I guess this is a natural human reaction where the public wants someone that represent their emotions, if not their struggles and somehow gives them a sense of direction and example in troubling times, this was never more evident than in the extraordinary sentimental  public reaction to the death of Princess Diana, which in some ways I found obscene, yet it was a great glimpse into the mindset of the general public to raise icons who resonate with them and venerate them to no end. 

This sort of reminds of the ancient concept of the Pharaohs (another subject that is always titillating to my  interests) who were worshipped by people and considered to be the saviours of the public in times of trouble and an example of the way to live. 

So it was quite an interesting time to revisit the Monarchy 

 

4 minutes ago, Dumuzzi said:

Personally, I think the Royal family is overrated and they have far too much power. Technically, the Crown owns 16 percent of the world's surface area

Wow, that's quite a thing. I had no knowledge of that. Seems a bit excessive to me. Not to mention expensive. 

 

4 minutes ago, Dumuzzi said:

(still) and the British Monarch is head of state in 16 countries, including pretty major powers like Australia and Canada. More info is coming out every day about how the royal family actually have a lot more influence behind the scenes than is commonly believed, they aren't just figureheads like the royals in other democracies, such as Norway, Sweden or the Netherlands.

The influence of the royal family, whether the traditional British or any other like the Dutch is really debatable. I personally don't think that the royal family should only be figureheads, of course as figureheads they could still continue to inspire people to live a good life of rejoice and celebration,yet that's a very limited role, an expansion of such a role into government and the army is more desirable, it creates an unusual feeling of trust where if the government makes a wrong decision that is against public favor, especially during times of war or distress, the monarchs could easily step in to make amends and control government transgressions and take care of the situation to spare the public of the assaults of their own flawed and corrupt governments. I think as a general rule, or probably due to historic reasons, people are more likely to trust a King/Queen than the reigning government. I would like to differentiate here that the concept of a monarch is much more differentiated from that of a tyrant, a fascist leader like Hitler or a dictator. Because these are mainly political figures and in contrast the royals are seen more in the capacity of graceful public figures who hold the people together in bad times, and help the continuation of the cultural tradition and lifestyle in a glorious and gracious manner, rather than dictatorial. I think in some ways, monarchs (just as pharaohs) are seen as saviours of a culture, as someone who could have the capacity to oppose the power of someone like Hitler and prevent the power of such persons from getting out of hand. Therefore the role of a monarch is quite mysterious in this regard, and seeing such roles and powers being exercised in times of national crises, is a heroic thing to watch, this however could only be a fantasy or it could be true, I've no personal  historical experience to really attest to such a sentiment yet this sentiment is always an undercurrent to such expressions. 

 

4 minutes ago, Dumuzzi said:

As for Hitch, I do miss him, but it's worth listening to his brother, Peter Hitchens too, who is on the opposite end of the political and religiosity spectrum. A lot of the atheist propaganda that Hitch was most famous for is just rehashed Marxism-Leninism.

I'd say that a certain degree of charm is needed in order to make a strong point and Peter, as much as I respect him, lacks in this department in which his brother Christopher was generously gifted. So it is quite a pleasure to watch Hitchens speak, although I might want to hear Peter, but probably rarely. 

 

[Preety_India]

I really liked these out of the whole collection. 

 

 

 

[Preety_India]

 

 

 

[Preety_India]

I'm not sure how much of this is true but nevertheless this is quite an interesting documentary. 

 

[Preety_India]

I have no idea why suddenly a plethora of favorable documentaries about the British Monarchy are popping up everywhere on YouTube right in this week following the Markle interview with Oprah. 

Maybe damage control on the part of the Royals. 

But I'm not complaining. 

On the contrary, I'm quite intrigued as I'm learning more about the British Monarchy. 

 

[Preety_India]

Also one of the reasons why the Monarchy in the spotlight has got to do with the popular TV series "The Crown" being broadcasted on Netflix. 

Found another gem of a documentary. 

 

 

[Preety_India]

I saw a bunch of favorable or desirable (not in terms of appearance) Royals (especially women) from the British Monarchy while sifting through these documentaries. 

Some of them are 

• Princess Anne 
• Princess Diana 
• Queen Elizabeth the 2nd, the current monarch 
• Princess Alice
• The Queen Mother (mother of the current monarch) 
• Princess Margaret 

And the male figures I'm trying to get info on. 

• Prince Philip 
• Prince Charles 
• Prince Andrew 

Out of alll the women studied in the past few days, my personality is very much like that of Princess Alice, slightly eccentric, traditional, religious, with mental health issues, struggling with disabilities, and yet believing in the power of the human spirit over circumstances. 

I most resonate with her. 

 

[Preety_India]

Horrible. They totally violated her basic human rights 

How could a mother do this? 

 

 

 

 

[Dumuzzi]

@Preety_India Interesting points...

I was actually just reading an article about the British Emperors of India, the last of whom was Lizzie's dad, George VI. In England he was merely a King, but in India, he was Kaisar-i-Hind, emperor of India. This was originally done on Queen Victoria's insistence as she didn't want to be outranked by her cousins on the German, Russian and Austro-Hungarian imperial thrones as a mere Queen. In fact technically, the current British Queen may very well have been India's last Empress, as the current Republic wasn't officially formed after her coronation, it continued on as a Dominion of the Crown for a few years after Independence.

 

As for the official possessions of the Crown, this comes from the book, "Who Owns The World", in which the Authors looks into who the ultimate owner is of the land that we walk on. Turns out, that in Commonwealth Realms and their territories (The UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, and their Antarctic  and overseas territories) are officially owned by the Crown, or in other words the current British Monarch. All land is legally the property of the crown and is then handed out to subjects either as a freehold or leasehold, but land ownership as it exists in other countries is not  a thing, only the crown can legally own land. That is of course presented as a legality or technicality, but it is nevertheless a sign of the feudal nature of the Commonwealth, even to this day. 

[Preety_India]

@Dumuzzi If the land is given out as lease, (that amount of land) I can only imagine the rent incurred on this land, if any, that's a huge amount in the coffers for the Royals. 

I read somewhere they are worth $77 billion. 

 

[Preety_India]

These royal documentaries are really quite interesting. 

One thing I saw running constantly through these documentaries is the notion of the stiff upper lip. 

I'm not sure if this is a normal British cultural thing or simply a Royal thing. 

 

[Preety_India]

I don't know why but even if these Royal documentaries aren't relatable, they are giving me super high energy and a sort of inspiration for life. 

Partly because much of the Royalty, if you forget the modern Royals for a minute, dealt with war and disaster in their kingdom.  Royal rules were much harder and stricter back in the beginning of the 20th century, life was quite hard for everyone back then, moreso because a greater part of this century was spent in wars and political strife between almost all European countries and even America.. This was largely a difficult era for Europe. Hunger, bombs, famine, unemployment, lack of medical care were a common feature in this era. 

Hitler was responsible for much of the suffering in Europe, igniting unnecessary wars with his mania to bring the whole world under his thumb. 

It contributed to great suffering. 

I have no idea how Europe survived this cultural Holocaust. 

Thats why these documentaries especially of the last 2 centuries are very inspiring and a reminder that all hope is not lost. 

 

[Preety_India]

This is especially evident when we see the documentary of Princess Alice 

 

[Preety_India]

 

 

[Preety_India]

 

The Royal lineage 

 

 

 

[Preety_India]

Older Queens and Kings. 

 

[Preety_India]

 

12 monarchs 

 

NamePortraitArmsBirthMarriagesDeathHouseRef.

Anne
Anne Stuart
1 May 1707[a]
–
1 August 1714
(7 years, 93 days)6 February 1665
St James's PalaceDaughter of James II and VII
and Anne HydePrince George of Denmark
St James's Palace
28 July 1683
No surviving children1 August 1714
Kensington Palace
Age: 49 years, 176 daysStuart[2]

George I
George Louis
1 August 1714
–
11 June 1727
(12 years, 315 days)28 May 1660
LeineschlossSon of Ernest Augustus of Brunswick-Lüneburg
and Sophia of HanoverSophia Dorothea of Brunswick-Lüneburg-Celle
21 November 1682
2 children11 June 1727
Osnabrück
Age: 67 years, 14 daysHanover[3]

George II
George Augustus
11 June 1727[c]
–
25 October 1760
(33 years, 126 days)30 October 1683
HerrenhausenSon of George I
and Sophia Dorothea of Brunswick-Lüneburg-CelleCaroline of Brandenburg-Ansbach
22 August 1705
Herrenhausen
8 children25 October 1760
Kensington Palace
Age: 76 years, 350 days[4]

George III
George William Frederick
25 October 1760[d]
–
29 January 1820
(59 years, 97 days)4 June 1738
Norfolk HouseSon of Prince Frederick
and Augusta of Saxe-GothaCharlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz
St James's Palace
8 September 1761
15 children29 January 1820
Windsor Castle
Age: 81 years, 228 days[5]

George IV
George Augustus Frederick
29 January 1820[e]
–
26 June 1830
(10 years, 149 days)12 August 1762
St James's PalaceSon of George III
and Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz(1) Maria Fitzherbert
Park Lane
15 September 1785
No verified children(2) Caroline of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel
St James's Palace
8 April 1795
1 daughter26 June 1830
Windsor Castle
Age: 67 years, 318 days[6]

William IV
William Henry
26 June 1830[f]
–
20 June 1837
(6 years, 360 days)21 August 1765
Buckingham PalaceSon of George III
and Charlotte of Mecklenburg-StrelitzAdelaide of Saxe-Meiningen
Kew Palace
13 July 1818
2 daughters20 June 1837
Windsor Castle
Age: 71 years, 303 days[7]

Victoria
Alexandrina Victoria
20 June 1837[g]
–
22 January 1901
(63 years, 217 days)24 May 1819
Kensington PalaceDaughter of Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn
and Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-SaalfeldAlbert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
St James's Palace
10 February 1840
9 children22 January 1901
Osborne House
Age: 81 years, 243 days[8]

Edward VII
Albert Edward
22 January 1901[h]
–
6 May 1910
(9 years, 105 days)9 November 1841
Buckingham PalaceSon of Victoria
and Albert of Saxe-Coburg-GothaAlexandra of Denmark
St George's Chapel
10 March 1863
6 children6 May 1910
Buckingham Palace
Age: 68 years, 178 daysSaxe-Coburg and Gotha[9]

George V
George Frederick Ernest Albert
6 May 1910
–
20 January 1936
(25 years, 260 days)3 June 1865
Marlborough HouseSon of Edward VII
and Alexandra of DenmarkMary of Teck
St James's Palace
6 July 1893
6 children20 January 1936
Sandringham House
Age: 70 years, 231 daysSaxe-Coburg and Gotha
(1865–1917)
and
Windsor
(1917–1936)[ii][11]

Edward VIII
Edward Albert Christian George Andrew Patrick David
20 January 1936[j]
–
Abdicated 11 December 1936
(327 days)23 June 1894
White LodgeSon of George V
and Mary of TeckWallis Simpson
Château de Candé
3 June 1937
No children28 May 1972
Neuilly-sur-Seine
Age: 77 years, 340 daysWindsor[12]

George VI
Albert Frederick Arthur George
11 December 1936[k]
–
6 February 1952
(15 years, 58 days)14 December 1895
Sandringham HouseSon of George V
and Mary of TeckElizabeth Bowes-Lyon
Westminster Abbey
26 April 1923
2 daughters6 February 1952
Sandringham House
Age: 56 years, 54 days[13]

Elizabeth II
Elizabeth Alexandra Mary
6 February 1952[l]
–
Present
69 years, 36 days21 April 1926
MayfairDaughter of George VI
and Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon

 

[Preety_India]

 

There have been 12 British monarchs since the political union of the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland on 1 May 1707. England and Scotland had been in personal union since 24 March 1603. On 1 January 1801, the Kingdom of Great Britain and the Kingdom of Ireland merged, which resulted in the creation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. After 26 of Ireland's 32 counties left the union on 6 December 1922, in order to form the Irish Free State, the name of the nation was amended to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland on 12 April 1927.

 

Queen Anne had ruled the Kingdom of England, the Kingdom of Scotland, and the Kingdom of Ireland since 8 March 1702. She became monarch of the Kingdom of Great Britain after the political union of England and Scotland on 1 May 1707. Her total reign lasted for 12 years and 146 days. For a family tree that shows George I's relationship to Anne, see George I of Great Britain § Family tree.

 

Shortlist of 12 British monarchs

Anne (1702–14)

George I (1714–27)

George II (1727–60)

George III (1760–1820)

George IV (1820–30)

William IV (1830–37)

Victoria (1837–1901)

Edward VII (1901–10)

George V (1910–36)

Edward VIII (1936)

George VI (1936–52)

Elizabeth II (1952– )

 

[Preety_India]

Old kings and Queens 

Sovereigns of Britain

Kings of Wessex (West Saxons)

namedynasty or housereign

1Athelstan was king of Wessex and the first king of all England.

2 James VI of Scotland became also James I of England in 1603. Upon accession to the English throne, he styled himself "King of Great Britain" and was so proclaimed. Legally, however, he and his successors held separate English and Scottish kingships until the Act of Union of 1707, when the two kingdoms were united as the Kingdom of Great Britain.

3The United Kingdom was formed on January 1, 1801, with the union of Great Britain and Ireland. After 1801 George III was styled "King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland."

4 Oliver and Richard Cromwell served as lords protector of England, Scotland, and Ireland during the republican Commonwealth.

5William and Mary, as husband and wife, reigned jointly until Mary's death in 1694. William then reigned alone until his own death in 1702.

6George IV was regent from February 5, 1811.

7In 1917, during World War I, George V changed the name of his house from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to Windsor.

8Edward VIII succeeded upon the death of his father, George V, on January 20, 1936, but abdicated on December 11, 1936, before coronation.

 

 

Egbert Saxon 802–839

Aethelwulf (Ethelwulf)Saxon839–856/858

Aethelbald (Ethelbald)Saxon855/856–860

Aethelberht (Ethelbert)Saxon860–865/866

Aethelred I (Ethelred)Saxon865/866–871

Alfred the GreatSaxon871–899

Edward the ElderSaxon899–924

 

 

 

Sovereigns of England

namedynasty or housereign

Athelstan1Saxon925–939

Edmund ISaxon939–946

Eadred (Edred)Saxon946–955

Eadwig (Edwy)Saxon955–959

EdgarSaxon959–975

Edward the MartyrSaxon975–978

Ethelred II the Unready (Aethelred)Saxon978–1013

Sweyn ForkbeardDanish1013–14

Ethelred II the Unready (restored)Saxon1014–16

Edmund II IronsideSaxon1016

CanuteDanish1016–35

Harold I HarefootDanish1035–40

HardecanuteDanish1040–42

Edward the ConfessorSaxon1042–66

Harold IISaxon1066

William I the ConquerorNorman1066–87

William IINorman1087–1100

Henry INorman1100–35

StephenBlois1135–54

Henry IIPlantagenet1154–89

Richard IPlantagenet1189–99

JohnPlantagenet1199–1216

Henry III Plantagenet1216–72

Edward I Plantagenet1272–1307

Edward II Plantagenet1307–27

Edward III Plantagenet1327–77

Richard II Plantagenet1377–99

Henry IV Plantagenet: Lancaster1399–1413

Henry V Plantagenet: Lancaster1413–22

Henry VI Plantagenet: Lancaster1422–61

Edward IV Plantagenet: York1461–70

Henry VI (restored)Plantagenet: Lancaster1470–71

Edward IV (restored)Plantagenet: York1471–83

Edward V Plantagenet: York1483

Richard III Plantagenet: York1483–85

Henry VII Tudor1483–1509

Henry VIII Tudor1509–47

Edward VI Tudor1547–53

Mary I Tudor1553–58

Elizabeth I Tudor1558–1603

Sovereigns of Great Britain and the United Kingdom2, 3

namedynasty or housereign

James I (VI of Scotland)2Stuart1603–25

Charles I Stuart1625–49

Commonwealth (1653–59)

 Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector41653–58

 Richard Cromwell, Lord Protector41658–59

Charles II Stuart1660–85

James II Stuart1685–88

William III and Mary II5Orange/Stuart1689–1702

AnneStuart1702–14

George I Hanover1714–27

George II Hanover1727–60

George III3 Hanover1760–1820

George IV6 Hanover1820–30

William IV Hanover1830–37

VictoriaHanover1837–1901

Edward VIISaxe-Coburg-Gotha1901–10

George V7 Windsor1910–36

Edward VIII8 Windsor1936

George VI Windsor1936–52

Elizabeth II Windsor1952–

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

Some notes on royal peerage 

The five titles of the peerage, in descending order of precedence, or rank, are: duke, marquess, earl, viscount, baron. The highest rank of the peerage, duke, is the most exclusive.

Landed gentry

Descendants in the male line of peers and children of women who are peeresses in their own right, as well as baronets, knights, dames and certain other persons who bear no peerage titles, belong to the gentry, deemed members of the non-peerage nobility below whom they rank. The untitled nobility consists of all those who bear formally matriculated, or recorded, armorial bearings.

Other than their designation, such as Gentleman or Esquire, they enjoy only the privilege of a position in the formal orders of precedence in the United Kingdom. The largest portion of the British aristocracy has historically been the landed gentry, made up of baronets and the non-titled armigerous landowners whose families hailed from the medieval feudal class (referred to as gentlemen due to their income solely deriving from land ownership).

duke, marquess, earl, viscount, baron

Whats the difference? 

 

But first, a quick primer: All of the people holding the titles of duke/duchess, marquess/marchioness, earl/countess, viscount/viscountess, and baron/baroness are part of the “peerage” of the United Kingdom, and those titles get bestowed directly from the monarch or inherited from an ancestor. Early members of the peerage were vassals of the monarch, or “servants” who swore an oath of loyalty and received land and/or money in exchange. Over time, they became a class of powerful nobles that served as the beginning of the House of Lords.

The highest of the five rankings is that of the duke/duchess. The term comes from the Latin term “dux,” which means leader—and until 1337, when King Edward III made his son the Duke of Cornwall, the title actually referred to the sovereign. Now, when a prince gets married, he’s usually named a duke; Prince William, for example, was made the Duke of Cambridge when he married Kate Middleton in 2011, and Prince Harry was made Duke of Sussex when he married Meghan Markle last year. The other current royal dukes are the Queen’s first cousins, the Duke of Gloucester and the Duke of Kent, and there are also 24 non-royal dukes, with the oldest blood line going back to 1397.

The next ranking under duke is that of the marquess/marchioness. The title was created by King Richard in 1385, and the fact that this new title was above the rank of earls pissed a lot of people off. Even now, it’s not a particularly popular title in England (honestly, I had never even heard of it before writing this). There are currently 34 marquesses, the most senior of which is the Marquess of Winchester, which was created in 1551.

After marquesses come the earls, a title equivalent to that of a count in other parts of Europe (and the female version of an earl is called a countess). Before King Canute, who ruled from 994-1035 (yes, a very long time ago), earls, or “ealdormen” as they were once called, managed provinces or shires on behalf of the king. From the reign of King Richard II onward (yes, the same guy who created the marquess rank), the title became either a life creation (only lasting for the appointee’s lifetime) or only pass-down-able through direct male heirs. However, some Scottish earldoms can be inherited by a woman and/or passed through a female line, which is why we now have 191 male earls and four countesses. The most recent earldom to be created is the Earl of Stockton, which was appointed in 1985—a pretty recent addition, considering how far this stuff goes back.

Under earls are viscounts/viscountesses, who historically were their deputies/lieutenants back when they were running their provinces and shires. The title was created in 1440 during the Hundred Years’ War, when King Henry VI, then the King of England and France, wanted to consolidate the titles of the two countries. Right now there are 115 viscounts, the oldest of which goes back to 1478.

The lowest rank in the peerage is that of the baron/baroness, which originally referred to a land-holding nobleman. Starting in the thirteenth century, barons were called upon by the monarch to attend the Counsel or Parliament—and over time, the king began to summon the descendants of those barons to do the same thing. In Scotland, in fact, a baron is the same thing as a Lord of the Parliament. There are currently 426 hereditary barons/lords of Parliament and nine hereditary baronesses/ladies of Parliament. The oldest line in England goes back to 1264, and the oldest line in Ireland goes back to 1223.

And how about the terms “lady” and “lord”? Informally, any member of the peerage up to the duke can be referred to in that manner—though dukes and duchesses should always be called by their full titles. A good thing to keep in mind the next time you find yourself amongst nobility—a peer of the peerage, if you will.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Preety_India