are there any tier 2 (spiral dynamics) women here?

[Dima]

I haven't been lucky so far to meet one. But they should be somewhere, right?

Edited November 18, 2020 by Dima

[Preety_India]

@Dima what do you expect from such women? 

 

[Dima]

25 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Dima what do you expect from such women? 

 

@Preety_India

Well, spiral dynamics breaks a bit when we talk about women. For instance, they can be very green but due to nature red or purple vMemes can be very strong too and coexist together (well, it doesn't actually break, it's just more nuanced - we need to consider different 'lines' in a person and particular vmemes (Leo touches this in his videos, but you can find out more in books)).
And it's not about my expectations, it's more about if the person feels herself a tier 2 person.
if we still try to distinguish what is tier 2 (imho Leo's described it well in his videos) - you see the entire spectrum, you don't judge other perspectives (you understand that your perspective even if it includes other perspectives is still a perspective, thus there is almost no ego), you are on the 'path' and don't need any external stimulus for it, etc-etc-etc.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Dima

[Preety_India]

4 minutes ago, Dima said:

@Preety_India

Well, spiral dynamics breaks a bit when we talk about women. For instance, they can be very green but due to nature red or purple vMemes can be very strong too and coexist together (well, it doesn't actually break, it's just more nuanced - we need to consider different 'lines' in a person and particular vmemes (Leo touches this in his videos, but you can find out more in books)).
And it's not about my expectations, it's more about if the person feels herself a tier 2 person.
if we still try to distinguish what is tier 2 (btw Leo's described it really well imho) - you see the entire spectrum, you don't judge other perspectives (you understand that your perspective even if it includes other perspectives is still a perspective, thus there is almost no ego), you are on the 'path' and don't need any external stimulus for it, etc-etc-etc.

I get what you mean but do you think that someone having the tier 2 vmeme is going to be fundamentally and radically different from someone who is at the stage green vmeme or stage orange vmeme, or do you think it's possible for an individual to have several combinations of vmemes infused into their personality whatever vmeme they are currently at, whether Tier 1 or tier 2, what if such a person is not truly aware what tier they're at, in such a situation what sort of parameters would you use to scale them across the spectrum, also do you think that these vmemes stay permanently as they are or is it possible for the person to switch context over time and adopt a different vmeme across the spectrum depending on the new information and experiences they continuously come across in life, would that impact your overall perspective about them? 

 

[Username]

Green and yellow are very different. I would compare it to having 2d or 3d view. It's impossible to have a serious conversation about systems with a green person.

My sister is green and she is confusing label with real thing all the time. She doesn't  fully understand that one label have very different meaning depending on which person is using it.

[Dima]

4 hours ago, Preety_India said:

I get what you mean but do you think that someone having the tier 2 vmeme is going to be fundamentally and radically different from someone who is at the stage green vmeme or stage orange vmeme, or do you think it's possible for an individual to have several combinations of vmemes infused into their personality whatever vmeme they are currently at, whether Tier 1 or tier 2, what if such a person is not truly aware what tier they're at, in such a situation what sort of parameters would you use to scale them across the spectrum, also do you think that these vmemes stay permanently as they are or is it possible for the person to switch context over time and adopt a different vmeme across the spectrum depending on the new information and experiences they continuously come across in life, would that impact your overall perspective about them? 

 

good questions, thank you for it! will try to elaborate on them.

'radically different' - I think yes, it's radically different. You can 'understand' things, but you also need to 'embody' them. and imho it requires 'physical' changes (eg - 'the brain' of an industrial-grade meditator, yogi, Sufi, etc. (or even a system thinker) will be significantly different and probably can be even measured (if needed));

'it's possible for an individual to have several combinations of vmemes infused into their personality' - yes, at tire 2 you understand that you've got them all - the questions is which ones are dominant at the moment (eg - get yourself in the circumstances of surviving (war) - red vmemes can get dominant). Also why it's 'dynamics' - it's in constant movement caused by internal or external reasons;

'what if such a person is not truly aware what tier they're at' - of course 'it's not required' to be aware of these tiers or models, but the model can help you significantly to progress in your personal development (on the spiral) as structured knowledge can solve the puzzle (though before that you need that puzzle pieces).

'what sort of parameters would you use to scale them across the spectrum' - Leo's covered it well in Yellow&Tourqoise videos with great examples. Simple check regarding the spiral dynamics model - it will not trigger you, you'll treat it as a possibly valid model (but not an absolute truth))

[Dima]

2 hours ago, AMTO said:

Purely from the bit you said about ego and other perspectives I’d say I wasn’t far off at all. But it’s very difficult indeed to have almost no ego given how it operates on the sly haha. But yes - maybe now you’ve met one! 

being aware of it (ego) - that's a lot already! =)

So how you've done it? What was your path? Do you consider yourself a system thinker too?

[Dima]

5 hours ago, Username said:

Green and yellow are very different. I would compare it to having 2d or 3d view. It's impossible to have a serious conversation about systems with a green person.

My sister is green and she is confusing label with real thing all the time. She doesn't  fully understand that one label have very different meaning depending on which person is using it.

agreed.

Another simple sign that can distinguish green is conditional love.

[Moon]

Think I'm a mixture of green and yellow. Defo seen tier 2 women here though 

[Preety_India]

I'm the Green Beast. 

I'm still stuck in Green but I'm happy with it. 

Don't regret it a bit. For me Green Green all the way. 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Preety_India

[Dima]

10 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I'm still stuck in Green but I'm happy with it. 

Don't regret it a bit. For me Green Green all the way. 

nothing wrong with getting stuck anywhere.. ??