Relationships and Self Deception

[Enizeo]

Hey Actualizers!

In the last few days I've been contemplating the decision to enter or not to enter into a relationship with a person. I am talking about this from a masculine man's perspective and that's what it be relevant for. This is as much a written contemplation for me as it is me asking for opinions and advice.

Framework & concepts I draw from:

I've been mainly influenced by The Way of the Superior Man and Leo's relationship advice in the latest episode (counter intuitiveness):

Deida states that you should not be expecting your woman to become easier. As a female you, consciously or unconsciously, feel the need to test if your man is grounded and unreactive. From what I understand about male-female dynamics that completely makes sense. A heavily feminine woman has the desire to fully experience the waves of her emotions and therefore requires a man that is not affected by that, strong, loving.
Leo said that, paradoxically, you will have better relationships when focusing on your partners needs instead of your own. In order to be able to do so you already need to be highly actualized, so you are in a position of being able to give abundantly. I'm also quite in love with the concept of 100% responsibility. So if my woman behaves in a challenging way, that is my opportunity to grow, to radiate love and be the support she needs in order to give herself into her emotions.

I resonate with these concepts and they are supported by my direct experience so far. That being said, they are ideals and my capacity to be emotionally unshakable and radiate love when a women "goes crazy" is corelated to my level of development and therefore far from perfect (although I am quite happy with the progress that I've made in many areas).

My specific situation:

EDIT: I am not trying to blame her or tell you how great of a person I am (was made aware that it seems like it). She is perfect the way she is, the question is if it is a good idea (for both of us) to be "perfect the way we are" together.

I have been friends with a woman for around 1.5 years now. There has always been a certain level of sexual energy, sometimes more, sometimes less. Because of my development and inexperience with women at the time, I was never able to pull the trigger though. In the beginning of September I left the country for 12 months to work abroad. We spend a lot of time together in the last couple of days I was home and eventually had sex. It was wonderful and surprisingly did not affect out relationship to much after I left.
Around a week ago she flew here to visit me. We immediately had a quite couple-ish situation going, it just felt natural like that. Also the first few fights came up and I realized that being happy in a relationship is quite a different challenge from being happy on your own (well who would've thought :D) . I am quite inexperienced with relationships, so while I have the theoretical foundation, I lack practice. I was not always able to shower her with unconditional love and not be affected by her emotions. She is quite a difficult (but wonderful!) person, she is also on her period right now so I'm aware that this definitely has a severe effect on her mood. So she has done things like yelling at me, running away when she couldn't deal with our conversation anymore, accusing me of being incredibly self centred because I have made decisions without asking her (nothing too big, to me I just took responsibility and leadership). I feel she is projecting that onto me, looking at a few situation it is actually a tendency that she has to be focused on her world, disregarding other's (my) needs. I have a lot of understanding for these mechanisms, yet I can't always help but be frustrated by them. I feel kind of powerless sometimes, not sure where to draw the line between understanding and showing her my personal boundaries.

How to tell if you are not full of shit?

So because today will be her last day here, the question of "what are we now" will undoubtedly need to be dealt with. I have contemplated the situation and here is the issue that I face: How can I know if entering into a relationship with her will be healthy? On the one hand it will bring me a lot of growth and the opportunity to work on my relationship skills. She is also a very special, beautiful creature in a lot of ways. On the other hand she is quite undeveloped (objectively by actualized.org's general standards, no judgement or value attached to that), very basic concepts are foreign to her (victim mindset, responsibility, projection, self deception...), and has no emotional mastery. So this is where self deception comes in. Am I expecting her to behave like a man? Is a thing like emotional mastery/stability even desirable for a woman? Am I "expecting my woman to become easier"? I am unsure about whether I am just underdeveloped in that area (which would mean the relationship is an opportunity), or if she is a person that I need to keep a certain distance from to self actualize. To break it down: Is she toxic or do I just need to learn to deal with her natural femininity?

 

Honestly, no idea how to approach this question My tendency right now is to give it a shot and try to grow and be the superior man she craves. If it does not work out, leaving the relationship is always an option. What also plays into it is that it will be a long distance relationship for another 9 months. I will see her occasionally (I'm not ridiculously far away), but it will still be mainly phone based for that period. Is that maybe even a good thing, who knows.
So give me your opinion please, how do you think this situation could be approached? If we come to a good conclusion I will edit it to the top of this post, since I think it could be quite valuable for others (that situation has to come up quite often right?).

Thank you

Edited December 4, 2018 by Enizeo
Clarification

[tsuki]

I think that the most important advice that I can give you is: stop assigning blame (and praise).
Every good and bad situation with this woman you've been through is a combination of your and her presence.
It does not matter who is the victim and who is the perpetrator. These two are the two faces of the same coin: ignorance.

2 hours ago, Enizeo said:

On the other hand she is quite undeveloped, very basic concepts are foreign to her (victim mindset, responsibility, projection, self deception...), and has no emotional mastery.

To illustrate my point, let me ask a rhetorical question: is she undeveloped, or are you full of yourself?
Her 'being udeveloped' is a part of your self-image of a self-actualizing person. Is it really helpful to say that she should get on your level?
I don't think so. Instead, I'd take this opportunity to work on making myself a more well-rounded person that can talk to 'normies' despite bettering myself. You do not want to build a crystal tower with your self-development.

2 hours ago, Enizeo said:

How can I know if entering into a relationship with her will be healthy?

By commitment to making it healthy. You cannot change the other person.

Edited December 4, 2018 by tsuki

[Enizeo]

I do not want to come across as the person who asks for advice and then can not take it, but I feel quite misunderstood.

 

2 hours ago, tsuki said:

stop assigning blame (and praise)

Made an effort to avoid that, but I see how it can seem like I did. I'm trying to assess the dynamics of our relationship, it is not a competition after all. So to be clear: I am neither judging her for behaving in a specific way, nor judging myself for how I react. Nor am I praising. We both behave in accordance to our level of awareness in the moment. Everyone does. There is no victim.

 

2 hours ago, tsuki said:

Her 'being udeveloped' is a part of your self-image of a self-actualizing person. Is it really helpful to say that she should get on your level?

It certainly is undeveloped by my image. Since we are on the actualized.org forum though, it is quite reasonable to assume that we at least share a similar image of development. So in the context of my question I feel like it was a useful way to explain what I mean, even if it is false from an absolute standard.
If we go down that route, it does absolutely not matter if I have any relationship at all. Healthy, unhealthy, desirable,... all just concepts. You don't exist, there's nothing to do. Still the person typing is living in an illusion that it has to navigate (yeees, it does not even have to do that...)

 

2 hours ago, tsuki said:

By commitment to making it healthy. You cannot change the other person.

Never mentioned expecting her to change in any way, I am thinking if it is healthy for me to enter into a relationship with her. She is perfect. Everyone is. I'm still not in an intimate relationship with everyone.

 

So thank you very much for making me reflect on these points! It might seem like I have just dismissed everything you said. That is not the case. I have added clarifications about these points to the original post.
The whole point of this post is the fact that I do not know to what extend I can trust my own judgement. I am highly deluded and want diverse perspectives to make the best decision available to me.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Enizeo
Mentioned changes to original post

[tsuki]

8 minutes ago, Enizeo said:

If we go down that route, it does absolutely not matter if I have any relationship at all. Healthy, unhealthy, desirable,... all just concepts. You don't exist, there's nothing to do. Still the person typing is living in an illusion that it has to navigate (yeees, it does not even have to do that...)

Hahaha, now isn't that the attitude that lets you enter the relationship freely?
The question is: do you really feel that way in everyday life? Do you embody it?

10 minutes ago, Enizeo said:

I'm still not in an intimate relationship with everyone.

Yes. Are you willing to reflect why do you want to change that? Is changing that actually possible? In front of the monitor with me?

11 minutes ago, Enizeo said:

I do not want to come across as the person who asks for advice and then can not take it, but I feel quite misunderstood.

No offence taken! Just like you reflect on yourself by asking this questions - so am I, by responding to them.

[Enizeo]

6 minutes ago, tsuki said:

do you really feel that way in everyday life? Do you embody it?

Hmm, you're right, I don't. What do you think that means? I thought about the possibility to get rid of my ego before I enter into any relationship, it seemed a bit extreme to me though. I wouldn't say I'm incredibly attached to having a relationship with her, or any relationship, but of cause the person typing is highly invested in "his own life".

 

11 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Yes. Are you willing to reflect why do you want to change that? Is changing that actually possible? In front of the monitor with me?

Not sure if I misunderstood you, but I think that would be logistically impossible right? I could get to a level of unconditional love for everyone and everything, I wouldn't call that intimate relationships then though. Also, I'm not there yet. How is an enlightened person choosing who they surround themselves with, that's actually something I've never contemplated. Do you have any input on that?

[tsuki]

18 minutes ago, Enizeo said:

Hmm, you're right, I don't. What do you think that means?

I think that it simply means that you know the theory, but there's work to do. Relationship with another human being is a wonderful practice.
Experiencing satori on a meditation cushion is one thing, but living it in everyday life is the end-goal.

20 minutes ago, Enizeo said:

I wouldn't say I'm incredibly attached to having a relationship with her, or any relationship, but of cause the person typing is highly invested in "his own life".

And that is the perfect place to start a relationship. Try to not be attached to non-attachment as well .

22 minutes ago, Enizeo said:

I could get to a level of unconditional love for everyone and everything, I wouldn't call that intimate relationships then though.

Let me ask for a clarification:
Is your understanding of intimacy grounded in exclusivity? Is a relationship intimate because she does things to you that she does not do with other people? 

24 minutes ago, Enizeo said:

How is an enlightened person choosing who they surround themselves with, that's actually something I've never contemplated. Do you have any input on that?

Well, commitment to accepting everyone in your life, unconditionally, would be a powerful practice.

[Enizeo]

24 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Is your understanding of intimacy grounded in exclusivity? Is a relationship intimate because she does things to you that she does not do with other people? 

No, I would not say it is exclusivity. It is a fascinating question though. It is not entirely related to sexual activities either, because you can have sex without being intimate and vice versa.
Right now I feel intimacy is mainly an emotional quality, a certain mutual vulnerability. A deep interest in another being. Would you agree?

Noticing that it's a dualistic definition, I'm at a dualistic point though, loving mainly because things are a way that is useful to the ego.
Exclusivity is interesting, is it mainly about convenience maybe? You trade a bit of your freedom in order to avoid the conflict that comes with open relationships (society, jealously etc.). I have not thought about the exclusivity question too much yet, I would want to take into account her view. I think I would be fine with either option, they have pros and cons.

Interesting thought: if you develop enough you reach a point where you actually are open for an intimate relationship with everybody. According to my definition above it would then only depend on the willingness of others to also open themselves to you. Beautiful vision actually.

 

24 minutes ago, tsuki said:

I think that it simply means that you know the theory, but there's work to do. Relationship with another human being is a wonderful practice.

I agree! I get a feeling that you think committing to her and growing to make it work is "the right thing" to do.

 

24 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Well, commitment to accepting everyone in your life, unconditionally, would be a powerful practice.

They day still only has 24h though, so you will not really get around discriminating who you spend those with. Can't say much about it though, as I still am a little ego trying to get rid of itself so it would just be speculation.

 

Thank you for guiding me into these thoughts, it's powerful!

Edited December 4, 2018 by Enizeo

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, Enizeo said:

Right now I feel intimacy is mainly an emotional quality, a certain mutual vulnerability. A deep interest in another being. Would you agree?

Yes. Vulnerability is definitely an emotional quality, and I would add that it has two components:

1. Honesty = authenticity = truthfulness, which is the lack of separation of the inner world and outward behavior
2. Recognition of the fear that another person knows us well enough to destroy us.

Relationships founded on two-way vulnerability (which is intimacy?) are very beautiful and very difficult at times.
My wife still has trouble understanding that we fight because we love each other deeply.

1 hour ago, Enizeo said:

Noticing that it's a dualistic definition, I'm at a dualistic point though, loving mainly because things are a way that is useful to the ego.

I think that the utility of the relationship should never be denied.
There will inevitably be dry periods where the only visible thing is the utility of it, but it is still something to be cherished. 
The fact that people can love each other is absolutely insane. People are a lot of trouble to be around closely.

1 hour ago, Enizeo said:

Interesting thought: if you develop enough you reach a point where you actually are open for an intimate relationship with everybody. According to my definition above it would then only depend on the willingness of others to also open themselves to you. Beautiful vision actually.

Very beautiful. Vulnerability is a powerful practice.

1 hour ago, Enizeo said:

I agree! I get a feeling that you think committing to her and growing to make it work is "the right thing" to do.

This is how I view my marriage. My wife was my first partner in my adult life.