About The Good Vs Evil Video

[vizual]

6 minutes ago, Elektrisko said:

It is no emotional reaction of me that there is immense, incredible suffering, horror and fear going on there. That is objective. That is no emotional reaction.

Suffering is subjective, just like evil. When a baby cries because it's hungry, is it suffering? When I cry when I watch a sad movie am I suffering? When a fish is gasping because it has washed ashore, is it suffering? When I pick an apple of of a tree, does the tree suffer?

[drelamore]

@Lha Bho why?

[Primeval]

@drelamore I have other words in my vocabulary, but, 'evil' seems to fit well in this context.

[drelamore]

@Lha Bho why?

[Primeval]

Because of it's definition; Evil: profoundly immoral and malevolent.

[Primeval]

@drelamore Like I said earlier, the problem is not the word, the problem is your attitude towards the word. It's just a word man...

[drelamore]

@Lha Bho No that's what you cant get. I am sure you categorize everything in the world as good and evil

 

[Primeval]

@drelamore That's a poor and distasteful assumption.

[drelamore]

@Lha Bho From my experience i say you're bullshitting yourself, but as you wish.

[Primeval]

To me: Evil = bad = negative = suffering.

@drelamore Suffering is a word you've used. Shall we take it out of the dictionary too? Maybe you should stop using that word as well.

[drelamore]

@Lha Bho Why is suffering evil?

 

[Primeval]

@drelamore Why do you want to get rid of suffering?

[drelamore]

@Lha Bho Because it's not true.

 

[Primeval]

On a spectrum of synonyms, the word Evil and the word Suffering are literally connected. They may not be directly interchangeable in all cases. But they denote similarity.

[Elektrisko]

4 hours ago, vizual said:

Suffering is subjective, just like evil. When a baby cries because it's hungry, is it suffering? When I cry when I watch a sad movie am I suffering? When a fish is gasping because it has washed ashore, is it suffering? When I pick an apple of of a tree, does the tree suffer?

Are you really saying that watching your loved ones getting raped and tortured to death is a subjective kind of suffering?

As for your examples, I would say that the fish gasping for air until it dies is suffering, if we agree on that a fish have the mental capacity to suffer. I would not call someone watching a sad movie as someone suffering. 

[Consept]

What exactly is the definition of evil? When I hear good and evil it always makes me think of religious morality or something that's higher than us, it's not really used as a descriptive word but some sort of overiding moral thing. 

For one good and evil is definitely subjective, based on your mindset, the current trends of what's acceptable in the particular era you've been brought into. For example I was watching a doc about the Spartans in Greece and it was very normal for them to be 'involved' with young boys, now then they were the highest regarded men of their time within their culture, nowadays that would be seen as the lowest. I'm not saying it's right of course but it's interesting how dramatically morality changes. 

For the op yes that scenario is obviously horrible, but the person committing the crime could also be seen as the victim, especially if you accept that free will is an illusion. If you were brought up in his circumstances and had his psychopath mind it's possible you too would commit that crime, the only thing that stops is a lack of his conditions and mindset, so you haven't made a choice not to do it you have different psychological traits and have had a different upbringing. 

So I think you can say that there are evil acts or at least what you may consider to be evil but where we go wrong as a society is by labelling someone as evil, because when you break that down what does it actually mea? I'm not religious but jesus said 'hate the sin, love the sinner', so if you can get the judgements about what is evil or good you can actually start solving problems at the route. A tough question could be if someone killed your mother, but they were fully rehabilitated within a week and you knew they were and would not commit a crime again, would you let them out of prison?  

[Elektrisko]

7 hours ago, Consept said:

What exactly is the definition of evil? When I hear good and evil it always makes me think of religious morality or something that's higher than us, it's not really used as a descriptive word but some sort of overiding moral thing. 

For one good and evil is definitely subjective, based on your mindset, the current trends of what's acceptable in the particular era you've been brought into. For example I was watching a doc about the Spartans in Greece and it was very normal for them to be 'involved' with young boys, now then they were the highest regarded men of their time within their culture, nowadays that would be seen as the lowest. I'm not saying it's right of course but it's interesting how dramatically morality changes. 

For the op yes that scenario is obviously horrible, but the person committing the crime could also be seen as the victim, especially if you accept that free will is an illusion. If you were brought up in his circumstances and had his psychopath mind it's possible you too would commit that crime, the only thing that stops is a lack of his conditions and mindset, so you haven't made a choice not to do it you have different psychological traits and have had a different upbringing. 

So I think you can say that there are evil acts or at least what you may consider to be evil but where we go wrong as a society is by labelling someone as evil, because when you break that down what does it actually mea? I'm not religious but jesus said 'hate the sin, love the sinner', so if you can get the judgements about what is evil or good you can actually start solving problems at the route. A tough question could be if someone killed your mother, but they were fully rehabilitated within a week and you knew they were and would not commit a crime again, would you let them out of prison?  

Again, I am not saying that the killer in my example is "evil". Especially since I don't believe in free will myself. But even so there is something going on in that situation that I don't think is a "natural" state, even though the universe is oblivious and does not really care one way or another. We where built by nature to be able to feel immense pain and suffering, and so there is something to be said that this horrible experience is in a sense an "evil" experience if that should be the label. I don't think that experience is "natural" considering the experiences we have the capacity to have. I mean if there is no such thing on any level as good or evil, then there is also no right and wrong. But because of how nature is made I would say if someone had the ability to create a new world it would be "wrong" to create a world where everyone suffered all the time, say by infinite torture vs creating a world where everyone feelt bliss and happiniess. I still believe there is something there that is more than the sum of its part, even though it is not material and has no substance, and we can only somehow describe it with a word that really don't do it justice. 

Also, even though morality changes in society there are still some things that will always be on the "evil" spectrum. And I would say that these thing are the things that involve immense suffering. These thing can never morally change or be "good", unless our whole being would change and we would become something totally different, no longer humans as we are now. The examples with involvement with young boys does not fall into this, because there is really nothing in that action that is necessary causing suffering. Of course it could in some cases, but it is not a necessity. Watching your family getting massacred and yourself getting tortured to death is something that is objectively suffering to us as we are built as organisms. 

 

Edited March 18, 2016 by Elektrisko

[Consept]

@ElektriskoOk so are you saying there is something called evil that just exists external to us? Like a devil kind of thing? 

[Elektrisko]

11 hours ago, Consept said:

@ElektriskoOk so are you saying there is something called evil that just exists external to us? Like a devil kind of thing? 

Evil is not something material. In one sense it does not exist, but still it does.

I guess the best analogy would be Love. One could argue in the same way that Love does not exist, it is not material in any way, still there is "something" there that is love and anyone could recognize it when they feel it. It can be logically "explained" by being just signals in the brain, but there is still "something" there again created in that experience that is more than the sum of its parts.

[Keyblade Viking]

 

This is the real version of good and evil, lying to yourself is the evil, being honest and truthful is the good, society don't give a fuck about that but think that "acting good" part where they want to seam like good people by acting a certain way or agreeing to certain things and make clothes of leaves to hide their naked bodies after eating from the trees of good and evil  

@Elektrisko It's extremely likely that we once didn't eat at all but lived on sunlight and probably water before our minds started "eating" from the outside and we judged ourselves based on other peoples opinions etc.
You'd be talking about the inherent sin that we can't do anything about and I haven't read much about what you've said (or anyone else for that matter, just noticed everyone mentioning you lol) but you seam to make a good point;
"even so there is something going on in that situation that I don't think is a "natural" state"

Edited March 22, 2016 by Keyblade Viking