Edvard

Elon Musk Life Style

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@TJ Reeves *space exploration as a safety net for issues with sustainability ---- >  don't make the planet so dirty you have to leave in the first place! *

if i remeber right i am pretty sure the reason for space exploration was to increase the chance for humans survival and to avoid what will happen to humans(or just living things) if we stay on earth when the sun dies

 

(quote from a website):

*when the sun expands into a red giant during the throes of death, it will vaporize the Earth* 

and that is a very real problem even if there is a long time until it happens

just thought it was worth to mention 

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eventual you have to bite the bullet 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, see_on_see said:

The dude can't even enjoy breakfast or lunch without rushing through it because he has to optimize every single minute of his daily routine to focus on success stuff. What are we even talking about? :D

And for what, to go on Mars? So we take our unconsciousness there and destroy Mars too? How about focusing on becoming more conscious on Earth, and not destroying Earth in the first place? And yes, he is obviously a bad influence with his unconsciousness. He influences all the people who take him as a role model thinking that being a successful workaholic is the way to go in life. He even knows that, and says stuff like, "you don't wanna be like me". He's just too deep into it to let go.

You're acting as if Musk himself is the cause of the planet's degradation.  He found himself in this situation and is trying to get us out of it, which is more than 99.999% of humans can say, who are doing literally nothing to solve the worlds problems.  Why are we singling out one of the rare people who is willing to sacrifice his own happiness for a greater cause?  

And actually, we do need more "successful workaholics" that use their wealth for philanthropy, even if there are better philanthropic causes to support than going to Mars.  

Edited by Real Eyes
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Building a colony on Mars asap makes sense. We are at a point in history with a lot of existencial threaths to our specie, including nuclear war, nuclear terrorism, biological warfare, artificial inteligence etc. The main priority for humanity right now is to avoid extinction. The way we can maxemize our odds of achieving that is by becoming a multiplanitery specie. 

If Elon really though there was a way to absolutely avoid this risk by "raising conciousness here on earth" or whatever, I'm sure he would have prefered that. If you want you can make it your goal to "raise the conciousness" (whatever your personal conceptualization of this term is) of Kim Jong-un, the taliban leadership, Salman, Ali Khamenei, Putin etc, and see how far you get. 

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I wasn't pointing the finger at Elon Musk specifically, more answering the question on whether it would be better for him to make himself happy by raising his consciousness rather than being a workaholic to get humans on Mars or be a philanthropist, if he actually wanted to make the world better.

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Posted (edited)

On August 10, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Edvard said:

 so by changing the level of consciousness for the "good" of the world you're also manipulating it

[a bit later]

... Now, are you gonna say this is ego? To eat? To stay alive? Well, you're able to write a post, so you're manipulating reality yourselves. You eat - manipulating reality. You do things to stay alive, because your ego doesn't want to die, or does it? I know, it's counterintuitive - you could of course eat without being attached to the thoughts that want to eat. But that doesn't make any sense, because your intire survival is depended on you caring for yourself. That's why consciousness creates the ego. So we do care, IMHO.

Do you really want to get into a verbal volleyball match about what is and isn't a manipulation? Yes, everything we do is a fucking manipulation. Life itself is a series of manipulations. As long as you stay alive, you manipulate.  When I wipe my ass, I manipulate. 

Now that we have that out of the way we can talk about what we're going to manipulate and whether its worth it to. That is, how conscious are we of our manipulations during the finite run-through of life by an infinite awareness? 

Consciousness is about transcending (readrise above, go beyond, stop serving, become independent of) the ego, not getting rid of it. You will never get rid of the ego as long as you are alive. Buzz off if you're going to try to create a straw man where it seems like we're saying no one can manipulate anything. 

On August 10, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Edvard said:

But you also gotta realize that the way people are is just reality

Your idea of 'the way people are' is just your limited view of reality. A limited view that seems to not quite understand how to view the benefits and the setbacks from Elon's plan + lifestyle. At several points throughout your response you mention 'how reality is' without acknowledging that this is your limited fucking view. 

To put it plainly, no, it is not how reality is. It is fucking relative. To quote Kanye West, "you don't have the answers, Sway!"

On August 10, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Edvard said:

A systemic thinker that wants to make an impact on the world sees that that won't happen, at least not until the earth is in pretty bad shape, and it's too late.

This is not the description of a systemic thinker. It is the description of a pessimist. 

On August 10, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Edvard said:

He sees that the reality of this world as now has a high likelyhood of not making it in 100-200 years.

He sees the same view that man has held since the dawn of time. 

It's not new. It's not cute. It's not noble. It's just the ego extending itself to a longer view of time. Especially in order to sell more of its own product at its own convenience. 

On August 10, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Edvard said:

let's not develop sustainable technology, let's not go to Mars, let's hope this will all be sorted out. This is not a strategy for saving the world. It's a strategy every individual themselves have to work on, while people like Leo Gura are dealing with these issues.

[later]

What do you think people are gonna do? Quit oil, quit internet, quit technology? Do you seriously think that will happen at this point in history because a guy like Elon just said that? Do you think fundamentalists, ideologists of the world, etc.. will change their openmindedness so radically in some decades, not to mention centuries? 

No one is saying this. Again, don't create a straw man. It's possible to see the good and the bad at the same time. 

I told you from the beginning that not only did I support much of the project, I personally offered my time to it.  For all intents and purposes, I'm probably the person most focused on helping his project considering the literal hundreds of hours I've put into it - but even I can see the pitfalls.  

The world moves forward, not backward. I am not  saying that we go back to ancient times. I am not saying that everyone must live in caves. I am not saying that we must totally give up on all technology.

What I'm saying is that we become more mindful of the root cause of the technological issues: the ego itself. Elon's ego clouds his view of the problem. 

On August 10, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Edvard said:

I kind of wondered mostly about this originally, but when I try to boil it down to the question of how the value of personal development/enlightenment should be balanced with life purpose, many of the responses I got from like @Leo Gura,@TJ Reeves and several others, are arguments and attacks on the content of Musk's purpose, and that his purpose may have a negative effect, as a part of their argument to why he's not a person to look up to, and to that I am responding.

Yes, part of your purpose is thinking about its actual effect. Elon's purpose is effected by his personal happiness. I will address the logic fully in the box below.

On August 10, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Edvard said:

No, I'm not arguing that it may be worthwile for me to pursue, at least not in terms of happiness. I posted because I wonder about the authenticness and fulfillment in this purpose, as well as the impact (which I view as important), but the impact alone is not why I argue that a Musk lifestyle is "good". But responses here use the impact as part of the argument, as if that means something to why an Elon Musk lifestyle is "worth it". And that's what I'm arguing - that if the impact means something - how much does it mean, and what I argued was only the parts of the arguments that says his impact is negative, which there are quite a few of. So if the argument depends a lot on that, then I think it makes sense to discuss that part of the argument.

Here is the logic laid out as a syllogism:

  1. All unenlightened, mentally unhealthy, overly success driven humans create technologies that tends to create more problems than they solves, especially as a result of unawareness
  2. Elon Musk is an unenlightened, mentally unhealthy, overly success driven human
  3. Therefore Elon Musk creates technologies that tends to create more problems than it solves, especially as a result of his unawareness

Whats worse though is the Absurdity of his project considering his mental unhealthiness:

  1. Elon specifically aims to mitigate the destructive technologies created by unenlightened, mentally unhealthy, overly success driven humans
  2. Yet elon creates destructive technologies by remaining unenlightened, mentally unhealthy, and overly success driven
  3. ????????
  4. Profit 

He is a fucking microcosm of the problem, see?

  1. Elon remains stuck in an unenlightened, techno-focused, success driven, mental unhealthy state
  2. the US remains stuck in an unenlightened, techno-focused, success driven, mentally unhealthy state. 

Here's another way to put it:

  1. You won't solve problems from the same level of thinking that created them.
  2. This is a technological issue
  3. Elon thinks about solving the problem from a technological level
  4. therefore, Elon won't solve the problem

But not only won't he fail, he will fail after ruining his marriages, his children's lives, his happiness, and influencing others to do the same. Do you see the fucking issue with this?

Yes you want to include the outcome of your life purpose into the overall calculation for your lifestyle. 

On August 10, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Edvard said:

So how many followers does Leo have? Like 630K on YouTube. That are 630K who are ready to hear his message. Elon Musk, as a systemic thinker, the only way he can change the world is to meet the vastly different levels of consciousness on their level, cooperate, integrate it. Seeing that all levels inhabit some parts of the truth. His solution is not to hide in a mountain or away from the rest of the world, or by just talk.

Lets go further, because this is where your delusion becomes hilarious.

Google Neuralink. Read what the companies plans are. Or don't do it because I'll tell you. 

His plan is to develop neural implants that help humans control computers and A.I. after getting a subdural injection. That is, in all seriousness is for people to go get brain surgery just for the chance to not use their mouse while talking to computers. 

Basically, he wants to turn us into cyborgs. He says it is the only chance we have against A.I. developments. 

That's all well and good. In fact, I love the plan. I too want to create cyborgs.

But here's what you're not considering: All of musk's plans revolve around getting people to buy in on paradigm shifting ideas. I mean we're talking about the world's best guy at convincing people to try shit. His cult of personality is unmatched. Marvel's Ironman - the best selling superhero - is literally based off of him.

Do you really think that its "reality" that he cannot whatsoever use some of the same money, expertise, research, design, and systemic thinking that he uses to convince people to become cyborgs  to have them meditate for like an hour or two a day and consider going to a therapist for depression? Really? What a joke!

Let me be very very very clear here:

I am a fan of his projects. I genuinely think they help humanity. If Neuralink called me and hired me, I would probably cry of joy. 

I am not a fan of when his projects get to a point where he works 100 hour weeks, has 3 divorces, and has depression. There comes a point where more is not better. He has reached this point. If he's a good leader, he would set up a system such that the companies don't die if he takes a break to rethink things. He can take a break, rethink things, and hell, even have a personal enlightenment. IF he did and IF he encouraged the public to look deeper within, THEN he would have his cake and eat it too. But as it stands, he is geared to not have his cake, not eat it. 

9 hours ago, BjarkeT said:

if I remember right i am pretty sure the reason for space exploration was to increase the chance for humans survival and to avoid what will happen to humans(or just living things) if we stay on earth when the sun dies...

*when the sun expands into a red giant during the throes of death, it will vaporize the Earth* 

and that is a very real problem even if there is a long time until it happens

just thought it was worth to mention 

I am readily aware of this fact. It will take 7.6 billion years. 

This is only pertinent in the sense that the sun's dying is the source of Isaac Asimov's The last Question , the story that influenced the creation of Space X.

Other than that, no it's not really pertinent because we're discussing the overall theme of Personal Development. 

9 hours ago, Real Eyes said:

You're acting as if Musk himself is the cause of the planet's degradation.  He found himself in this situation and is trying to get us out of it, which is more than 99.999% of humans can say, who are doing literally nothing to solve the worlds problems.  Why are we singling out one of the rare people who is willing to sacrifice his own happiness for a greater cause?  

And actually, we do need more "successful workaholics" that use their wealth for philanthropy, even if there are better philanthropic causes to support than going to Mars.  

No one is blaming Musk. He serves as a microcosm/prototype/example for the larger issue of our society's stuckness in orange level thinking. 

Edited by TJ Reeves
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23 minutes ago, TJ Reeves said:

Enlightenment is about transcending (readrise above, go beyond, stop serving, become independent of) the ego, not getting rid of it. You will never get rid of the ego as long as you are alive. So fuck off if you're going to try to create a straw man where it seems like we're saying no one can manipulate anything. 

OK, thanks for adressing that. I needed a response to this question as I thought this might be one aspect that this topic boils down to. I've seen no one say the ego is necessary for survival, as that would make sense, so yes,  good to eventually have that out of our way. 

25 minutes ago, TJ Reeves said:

Your idea of 'the way people are' is just your limited view of reality. A limited view that seems to not quite understand how to view the benefits and the setbacks from Elon's plan + lifestyle. At several points throughout your response you mention 'how reality is' without acknowledging that this is your limited fucking view. 

To put it plainly, no, it is not how reality is. It is fucking relative. To quote Kanye West, "you don't have the answers, Sway!"

What I basically meant by it is that we don't have free will. I don't know how reality is, but no one's gonna change it, because no one exists (which I have not had a completely direct experience of, meaning it's an idea) and we don't have free will (which I do experience). This wasn't really all that important for my main point, but thought it was just worth mentioning. I used reality as a semantic in this case, referring to the notion that things are the way they are and are gonna become the way they become, ultimately.

Correct, I don't have the answers. BTW, who has?, we're just exchanging ideas and questioning ideas. The notion that enlightened people know what reality is is also at this point just an idea for me.

36 minutes ago, TJ Reeves said:

This is not the description of a systemic thinker. It is the description of a pessimist. 

Why do I hear Leo all the time talking about not getting into arguments, or push enlightenment, tell others how to live, etc.? Someone who is not a systemic thinker does that, they're not really able to see the world from other people's perspective, but instead just condemn people for not being like this or that, not seeing that "they" are part of a system that is not going to change by forcing opinions overnight. People don't want to think about the climate in their everyday life. This characterizes stage green - a lot of talk and condemnation of lower consciousness people. I earlier said Elon might be at stage green (a lot because of people scolding him for low consciousness), but I now think he is yellow, but of course, I don't know.

BTW, recognize that I'm not claiming to know anything, I'm coming up with arguments my mind creates based on your responses, while I want them to be challenged.

48 minutes ago, TJ Reeves said:

He sees the same view that man has held since the dawn of time. 

It's not new. It's not cute. It's not noble. It's just the ego extending itself to a longer view of time. Especially in order to sell more of its own product at its own convenience. 

So you're confident it's not gonna be any risk? The fact that man has had the view of the world ending since the dawn of time, mostly religiosly motivated, has extremely little to do with today's concerns about this. 

1) The timeline of humanity is relatively extremely small, and for the 200.000 years there have been humans, almost no progress in technology and population growth was made until the industrial revolution at the 1700s, a tiny, tiny fraction of history. Things are just accellerating really fast, and it's extremely hard to predict the future of Earth. I wouldn't be so confident. Technology is just on top of the already occasional natural events like super volcanos and meteorites (while eventually the Sun will soak up the Earth, while we have time for that). Don't know if you've heard about this (I assume you have), but research shows that CO2-levels in the atmosphere are increasing every year, which has and will lead to further temperature rise of the atmosphere, causing all sorts of trouble. Don't know whether you deny this or not. Point is, not comparable to ancient times at all.

2) Elon doesn't claim to have any immediate doomsday prophecy, and I certainly don't know what's gonna happen in the future. It's just that it may happen.

Remember, this answer is a response to this isolated response of yours, above, which to me doesn't make any sense.

 

1 hour ago, TJ Reeves said:

No one is saying this. Again, don't create a straw man. It's possible to see the good and the bad at the same time. 

I told you from the beginning that not only did I support much of the project, I personally offered my time to it.  For all intents and purposes, I'm probably the person most focused on helping his project considering the literal hundreds of hours I've put into it - but even I can see the pitfalls.  

The world moves forward, not backward. I am not  saying that we go back to ancient times. I am not saying that everyone must live in caves. I am not saying that we must totally give up on all technology.

What I'm saying is that we become more mindful of the root cause of the technological issues: the ego itself. Elon's ego clouds his view of the problem. 

I read that you supported him, but it seemed like you changed your mind.

"For all intents and purposes, I'm probably the person most focused on helping his project considering the literal hundreds of hours I've put into it - but even I can see the pitfalls."  So are you still focused on helping his project, then?

That's also what I'm wondering. How do you measure Elon's ego? He seems fairly humble to me. I've written about this earlier, but why would he choose space if it was about money and success for success itself, while he also thougth he had a slim chance of succeeding with a high risk of losing everything he had earned from paypal, and being OK with living on $1 a day? Plus, he says we probably live in a simulation. Do you see this as typical egoic traits? Is this the thinking process of the stock market, Wall Street, Putin, Trump, Kim Jung-un? - Can you imagine them saying: "People, we live in a simulation". No, egoic people want themselves, and especially others to have a limited worldview, like belief in: significance (i.e.:Earth center of universe, God made the planet for us), free will, tribalism, self-centeredness, profit at all cost. That's at least the notion I have of it.

I agree that we should be more mindful about the root cause of technological issues; like stop having profit at all cost, living unsistainably. There wouldn't be any need for Musk's plans if everybody thought like this. But so many don't; so many just want to consume what gives the most wealth, or not giving a shit about nature as long as they get the maximum profit. So many people are also already trying to convince them to have other values. 

I can't say that I know that Elon is doing what is best, but at this point, i think most likely. You think most likely not (or definitely?). Maybe he has a big ego, and that's a problem. I don't see it, and I don't know how I could find it, except for what I said earlier; that egoic thinking is what makes us want to survive and thrive, which we all do... 

 

1 hour ago, TJ Reeves said:

Here is the logic laid out as a syllogism:

  1. All unenlightened, mentally unhealthy, overly success driven humans create technologies that tends to create more problems than they solves, especially as a result of unawareness
  2. Elon Musk is an unenlightened, mentally unhealthy, overly success driven human
  3. Therefore Elon Musk creates technologies that tends to create more problems than it solves, especially as a result of his unawareness

Whats worse though is the Absurdity of his project considering his mental unhealthiness:

  1. Elon specifically aims to mitigate the destructive technologies created by unenlightened, mentally unhealthy, overly success driven humans
  2. Yet elon creates destructive technologies by remaining unenlightened, mentally unhealthy, and overly success driven
  3. ????????
  4. Profit 

He is a fucking microcosm of the problem, see?

  1. Elon remains stuck in an unenlightened, techno-focused, success driven, mental unhealthy state
  2. the US remains stuck in an unenlightened, techno-focused, success driven, mentally unhealthy state. 

Here's another way to put it:

  1. You won't solve problems from the same level of thinking that created them.
  2. This is a technological issue
  3. Elon thinks about solving the problem from a technological level
  4. therefore, Elon won't solve the problem

But not only won't he fail, he will fail after ruining his marriages, his children's lives, his happiness, and influencing others to do the same. Do you see the fucking issue with this?

Yes you want to include the outcome of your life purpose into the overall calculation for your lifestyle. 

All the personal issues about Elon's happines I kind of agree with, it's probably not pleasant, and yes, he would probably benefit and do better by being enlightened and raise consciousness (which I think is relatively high), I'm not gonna argue with you there, because I have little direct information about the true benefits of enlightenment. But I don't argue about this. I'm not enlightened myself so I have to be "agnostic" about it, although I have a goal of becoming enlightened, because I do think it makes sense, exactly because I understand that success won't make me happy! But that's not what I'm arguing. What I'm arguing is a lot of seemingly flawed arguments about the importance, usefulness and relatively positive impact that Musk is making on the world, regardless of whether it makes sense for me to take his path, although that's what I'm contemplating in regard to the value of the purpose and impact.

However, if you want to solve the problem, it has to be by action and hard, determined work. Why can't technnology solve any problems, if wisely used? Why shouldn't we create sustainable technology when today's technology is NOT sustainable? I just don't get your point here. Of course you have to solve it technologically when the world won't move backwards and quit oil by itself! By sustainable technology, and it preferably has to work even better for enough people to want to use it, and that requires extraordinary work. Of course Musk could do things differently, and if enlightened he probably would. You could i.e become enlightened first, and then choose a similar kind of purpose. I don't know how far Musk would have gotten if he spent so much of his time doing enlightenment work, but I think he is a more positive than negative force, and if he took out pension in his early-mid twenties after selling PayPal for $300M, I think the world would be worse off. But I don't know how things would be without him, neither do you.

2 hours ago, TJ Reeves said:

Lets go further, because this is where your delusion becomes hilarious.

Google Neuralink. Read what the companies plans are. Or don't do it because I'll tell you. 

His plan is to develop neural implants that help humans control computers and A.I. after getting a subdural injection. That is, in all seriousness is for people to go get brain surgery just for the chance to not use their mouse while talking to computers. 

Basically, he wants to turn us into cyborgs. He says it is the only chance we have against A.I. developments. 

That's all well and good. In fact, I love the plan.

But if you're going to seriously sit there and claim that the only "reality" is that people will be more accepting of becoming cyborgs than fucking sitting down and meditating like an hour or two per day, you're delusional. 

All of musk's plans revolve around getting people to buy in on paradigm shifting ideas. I mean we're talking about the world's best guy at convincing people to try shit. His cult of personality is unmatched. Marvel superhero's are literally based off of him.

Do you really think that its "reality" that he cannot whatsoever use some of the same money, expertise, research, design, and systemic thinking that he uses to convince people to become cyborgs  to have them meditate for like an hour or two a day and consider going to a therapist for depression? Really? What a joke!

I've heard of Neuralink and some of the conscepts of it, but I need to do more research on it.

I'm not claiming people will be more accepting of that. Sure, Elon could advocate meditation, although anybody could, and everyone has heard of it. But sure, it's true that him advocating to work 100 hours a week instead of meditation is a possibly negative impact, but he only says this in response to people asking him how to succeed. In those videos, also Leo talks about accepting drudgery and working your ass off. It's just a recipe for success. 

If people are more accepting of meditation, they can do it, most people know about meditation and many people advocates it. Sure, Elon could advocate it, although that's not really his job, but sure, it would be great if he responded with that. He probably hasn't meditated much himself.

Elon Musk is not an enlightened guru. If he was, I guess it would be better (although how would he have time for that. He is thinking systemically about the world, and don't see what more you need to change it if your intents are good - and that doesn't mean enlightenment is not beneficial), but that doesn't mean he is not making a positive impact. 

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, TJ Reeves said:

Let me be very very very clear here:

I am a fan of his projects. I genuinely think they help humanity. If Neuralink called me and hired me, I would probably cry of joy. 

I am not a fan of when his projects get to a point where he works 100 hour weeks, has 3 divorces, and has depression. There comes a point where more is not better. He has reached this point. If he's a good leader, he would set up a system such that the companies don't die if he takes a break to rethink things. He can take a break, rethink things, and hell, even have a personal enlightenment. IF he did and IF he encouraged the public to look deeper within, THEN he would have his cake and eat it too. But as it stands, he is geared to not eat have his cake, not eat it. 

Didn't see this edit until now. 

Finally a response that makes sense to me. I have nothing to argue here. It didn't sound much like you were a fan of his projects, though, it felt like you spent about every argument saying how bad of an impact he's making on humanity, which is why this thread has lasted so long, because those arguments in my opinion were just full of flaws and seeming to miss information about Musk. 

But I like this one. It would seem possible to get someone to supply him in his place, or make sure everything is not depended just on him. So if anything sounds a bit egoic, it's gotta be that. But of course, I don't know his reasoning behind his choices. But yeah, working 100 hours at this point, getting divorces and depression... aha.. I see it now, why couldn't you or Leo just say it this way, instead of mixing in flawed arguments about his impact when you actually think he ultimately helps humanity? But anyway, a lot of thoughts came out of this, and of course it's something to think about that what may seem nice, may not be so nice after all, so thanks for that :) 

Edited by Edvard
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Elon Musk looking for truth 😜 Just give him the right epistemological questions to crack his mind.

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Posted (edited)

When I think of Elon Musk's lifestyle, it reminds me of this classic scene from the movie Wall Street:

 

Edited by Shiva
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a shore far away, clear the night - gazing into the infinite
the me dissolves, it fears - I cannot hold back my tears
an all-encompassing unity.

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On 7/17/2017 at 8:52 PM, Edvard said:

What if he just accepts «sacrifying» his consciousness to help humanity,

No billionaire is helping humanity. Enriching yourself by a billion dollars it is literally impossible without harming people. It is quite unimaginable how much has to happen and how much impact you have to have to earn a billion dollars. Such influence is uncontrollable.

So many people admire Steve Jobs, Elon Musk and Donald Trump and so on. But realize also that Steve Jobs literally made his money on the backs of children assembling and mining the resources for his iPhones.

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a shore far away, clear the night - gazing into the infinite
the me dissolves, it fears - I cannot hold back my tears
an all-encompassing unity.

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