Hyper Normalisation.

[VeganAwake]

6 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

then what remains is Nondual self or Nondual consciousness,

The ego is very cunning though. It will attempt to then identify as 'nondual consciousness' often referred to as 'spiritual ego'

Very rarely is this trick of the ego recognized.

Ego = identification 

 

Disentangling from this whole identification misunderstanding is extremely rare.............like 1 in 950,000 rare it seems 😳 

[Mellowmarsh]

2 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

The ego is very cunning though. It will attempt to then identify as 'nondual consciousness' often referred to as 'spiritual ego'

Very rarely is this trick of the ego recognized.

Ego = identification 

 

Disentangling from this whole identification misunderstanding is extremely rare.............like 1 in 950,000 rare it seems 😳 

Yes. 💯 percent agree. 
 

Entanglement is unavoidable in this conception no one ever conceived.

[VeganAwake]

12 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Yes. 💯 percent agree. 
 

Entanglement is unavoidable in this conception no one ever conceived.

Yep,

It's totally illogical and ridiculous because essentially what's being said is......."nothing is identified as being nothing"

Ego thinks being nobody is special and then subtly identifies as being nobody 🤣

[VeganAwake]

A total illusion of identity clearly seen through by nothing 🤯

Try selling that one 🤣

[Wilhelm44]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

That’s a good explanation. Here’s mine:

I like your definition also.

But can you now see that we are giving different definitions for the self.

For example you said something about a chief preferring 3 wives etc.

And I clearly said that preferences and survival instincts don't fall away.

So to say that it's impossible for the self to fall away, you are only talking about your definition of the self.

Not the same self as what fell away for Jim or Mellowmarsh or VeganAwake etc.

 

Edited 17 hours ago by Wilhelm44

[Wilhelm44]

21 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

The heavy sense of a separate vulnerable identity trying to defend itself “ falls away “ 

Thank you

[Wilhelm44]

52 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

The ego is very cunning though. It will attempt to then identify as 'nondual consciousness' often referred to as 'spiritual ego'

Very rarely is this trick of the ego recognized.

Ego = identification 

 

Disentangling from this whole identification misunderstanding is extremely rare.............like 1 in 950,000 rare it seems 😳 

So that ego that wants to identify with nondual consciousness can also 'fall away' eventually ?

But until it does there's not much we can do but notice it I guess.

Does it just run out of steam eventually ?

Edited 17 hours ago by Wilhelm44

[Wilhelm44]

Definition of self, ego etc seems to be quite tricky. 

[VeganAwake]

24 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

So that ego that wants to identify with nondual consciousness can also 'fall away' eventually ?

But until it does there's not much we can do but notice it I guess.

Just it just run out of steam or something ?

Yup,

Nothing needs to happen, and it's either recognized or not!

The running out of steam is the end of identification as it.

[VeganAwake]

55 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Definition of self, ego etc seems to be quite tricky. 

I use the word ego sometimes because it seems to land better during communication 🤷 

Ego and Self are the same illusion 

[Wilhelm44]

7 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

I use the word ego sometimes because it seems to land better during communication 🤷 

Ego and Self are the same illusion 

Cool, thanks.

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It doesn't dissapear because it's not actually there.....it just seems like it is.....that's why this rare phenomenon is often described as an illusion!

The program gets interrupted due to clearly seeing its not real.

Similarly to recognizing Santa Claus isn't real........try all you want......Christmas is forever changed.....never to return the way it seemed when Old Saint Nick was thought to be coming to town 😉 

If it's not real, why 100% of humans that have existed have seen it as real? Are all them fools, except you and Jim Newman? It's a possibility 

Anyway, real Vs illusion are categories, then mental structures, and who works with mental structures is a a facet of the self, the logical mind. 

Edited 12 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

I like your definition also.

But can you now see that we are giving different definitions for the self.

For example you said something about a chief preferring 3 wives etc.

And I clearly said that preferences and survival instincts don't fall away.

So to say that it's impossible for the self to fall away, you are only talking about your definition of the self.

Not the same self as what fell away for Jim or Mellowmarsh or VeganAwake etc.

 

For you, or for Newman, the aspect of the self that represents a human moving along a timeline is an illusion. It is not; it is the mental representation of a reality, a predictive system that integrates the past, the present, and a hypothetical future in order to navigate the ocean of possibilities.

It is, fundamentally, the essence of the human form. Newman says: "Free yourself from that! Leave the future to God!". all while living in a house and going to the supermarket to buy food. I don’t know if you can see the level of idiocy this implies. It seems like a joke.

[Breakingthewall]

@Wilhelm44 a question for you or Newman. Do you perceive right now, without the slightest doubt, that what you are can't die? That it's absolutely impossible, not something that you Intuit but a real perception that's absolutely obvious. Same obvious than the fact of you existing? 

Another: do you or Newman perceive the unlimited life that is the fact of being now? Not unlimited because it can't end, unlimited in the dimension of depth. That this, now, is the unlimited depth that lives, and it's life is total, not big but absolute. 

 

[Mellowmarsh]

On 15/10/2026 at 9:21 PM, Breakingthewall said:

The self is a structure that the formless is taking now, and it can open itself to it's nature, that is the unlimited

A genuine curious question for you Mr. Breakingthewall
 

This “formless” you mentioned above in your post, that takes the structure of a self now, must by definition look like what exactly?

What does a formless structured self actually look like, to you personally, what I mean is, does this self structure formed by the formless have an image that can be looked upon? And if you say yes, it can be looked upon, then can you show to us readers what this looked upon formless formed structure of self looks like, so that we can all see for ourselves what it is you are attempting to show us? Can you do that so we can get some idea of how real it is in your personal logic ?

If you can’t show us then just be honest and say you can’t, but if you can show us then that will be much appreciated thanks.

I’ll wait patiently for your response, I’m looking forward to seeing what you show us. 
 

 

[Wilhelm44]

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

For you, or for Newman, the aspect of the self that represents a human moving along a timeline is an illusion.

I simply said, that sense of being a character on a linear timeline moving towards fulfillment. It's not a denial of human experience as such.

Edited 35 minutes ago by Wilhelm44

[Wilhelm44]

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

a predictive system

Once again, I'm not saying that mental functioning falls away.

[Wilhelm44]

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

It is, fundamentally, the essence of the human form. Newman says: "Free yourself from that! Leave the future to God!". all while living in a house and going to the supermarket to buy food. I don’t know if you can see the level of idiocy this implies. It seems like a joke.

You seems to have all these quotes which Newman never said 

ps I don't agree with everything he says.

[Wilhelm44]

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

a question for you or Newman. Do you perceive right now, without the slightest doubt, that what you are can't die?

It's funny, I just made this little video yesterday.

[Wilhelm44]

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Another: do you or Newman perceive the unlimited life that is the fact of being now? Not unlimited because it can't end, unlimited in the dimension of depth. That this, now, is the unlimited depth that lives, and it's life is total, not big but absolute. 

You'd need to give Jim a call, pretty sure he does. I have more and more glimpses of this. 

This video by Leo is like a psychedelic in this regard.