Hyper Normalisation.

[VeganAwake]

So in that sense it doesn't matter........nothing matters! 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

The only limit is each body has limited time to exist. So when that body expires, it won't really matter what humanity is doing. There won't be a self illusion "you" there to witness it.

There will be other bodies, other structures. All are the same, the reality happening. What you are is always happening, if you detach yourself to this concrete experience it becomes obvious. The reality is not a self, a self is a structure that the reality takes. Any structure begins and ends, but what is can't finish . Can't be more obvious 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

So in that sense it doesn't matter........nothing matters! 

"Matters" is just a valoration that is happening in the current structure, the human mind. Out of it "matters" is meaningless. No thing matters or doesn't matter, things just are. 

[Mellowmarsh]

2 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

The only limit is each body has limited time to exist. So when that body expires, it won't really matter what humanity is doing. There won't be a self illusion "you" there to witness it.

That’s right, and also why evolution cannot be accurately witnessed because no human being ever lives long enough.

 

Limitation hasn’t got a clue about what’s going on they’ve only got their tiny little pixel of a window to look out of, so they’ll never know or understand the bigger picture, ever. Everything they think they know is pure speculation. Story telling at most.

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

There will be other bodies, other structures. All are the same, the reality happening. What you are is always happening, if you detach yourself to this concrete experience it becomes obvious. The reality is not a self, a self is a structure that the reality takes. Any structure begins and ends, but what is can't finish . Can't be more obvious 

No, that's just some kind of death denial. Each body isn't the same. One body doesn't experience what every other body does. 

When that Breakingthewall body dies, it won't even know it ever existed.

It will be total lights out indefinitely.

The self illusion doesn't like hearing this, so it creates things like your describing and religion to make itself feel like there's hope.

[VeganAwake]

What the self illusion doesn't realize is that it's already not real.

THIS is already death!

[Mellowmarsh]

11 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

What the self illusion doesn't realize is that it's already not real.

THIS is already death!

I would say the illusion knows that it’s an illusion rendering knowledge a fictional tale told by no one. 
 

When we try to point to the knower all we can touch is the known that doesn’t know anything. 
Most people cannot hear that message. It’s unthinkable, and this nature abhors its own vacuum. 

[Breakingthewall]

17 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

No, that's just some kind of death denial. Each body isn't the same. One body doesn't experience what every other body does. 

When that Breakingthewall body dies, it won't even know it ever existed.

It will be total lights out indefinitely.

The self illusion doesn't like hearing this, so it creates things like your describing and religion to make itself feel like there's hope.

Imagine the one day me, after an eight-hour debate on whether the self is illusory, I grab a 5-kilogram iron bar and, taking advantage of the fact that you are distracted while insisting that the self is indeed illusory, i strike you on the head with it with all my might.

I am sentenced to 15 years in prison, but you miraculously survive. After a year-long coma, you wake up, but your memory is completely gone. You have to relearn how to speak and how to use the bathroom on your own. Would you say that "you" no longer exist? Who exists? Someone else?

[Breakingthewall]

Believe me, you don't understand how it works. What you are is the reality, the absolute fact of being manifested in a self, in a dual experience. This self in not illusory, is relative, what is different.  Being a self means being a Knower, a subject that receives an object. This self is closed, focused in a limited point, in a definite structure. It Can be opened. Then the subject and the object lose it's limits and the reality sees itself by the eye that this self is. You are the eye of the reality and the reality itself.

The reality can know itself totally, absolutely, because what the reality is is the unlimited. This doesn't mean knowing unlimited things, but being without limits. If you are without limits even 1 second, you will know what you are. 

[Sugarcoat]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

This self in not illusory, is relative, what is different.

Maybe it's meant that the "illusion" is the sense that you're absolutely real (as a self)

Edited 17 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Maybe it's meant that the "illusion" is the sense that you're absolutely real (as a self)

Then you also could say that the stones are illusory, or the body, or anything else, because everything that has form is relative. What is absolute is being, anything else is relative.

Being doesn't mean being a or b or c, means the absolute fact of existing, that has not bottom and lives, that is everything. Being open to this fact is the real point, it's the life, the openess, the affirmative fact of existing and the absolute freedom that what has not limits . 

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then you also could say that the stones are illusory, or the body, or anything else, because everything that has form is relative. What is absolute is being, anything else is relative.

Being doesn't mean being a or b or c, means the absolute fact of existing, that has not bottom and lives, that is everything. Being open to this fact is the real point, it's the life, the openess, the affirmative fact of existing and the absolute freedom that what has not limits . 

Not that the form is illusory, but the sense that the stone is absolutely real as a separate object.

Maybe it's not clear what I mean

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Not that the form is illusory, but the sense that the stone is absolutely real as a separate object.

Maybe it's not clear what I mean

A Stone is separated from what is not the stone, has different structure, properties. A living being is more separated from the external, it's a definite pattern that self preserve and change information with what is external to it in an absolute precise way. So where is the illusion?

[Sugarcoat]

25 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

A Stone is separated from what is not the stone, has different structure, properties. A living being is more separated from the external, it's a definite pattern that self preserve and change information with what is external to it in an absolute precise way. So where is the illusion?

So someone who is “opened”, in open state, as you speak of, but self structure is still there, vs somebody who only knows of the duality, and feels the boundary between self and world is 100% real, not “relative” but totally real, you don’t consider there is some illusion at play there? Nature of reality being totally “hidden” so one only sees the separate, vs “seeing” both, the absolute and the relative self structure and the forms, in the open state.

Edited 13 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

So someone who is “opened”, in open state, as you speak of, but self structure is still there, vs somebody who only knows of the duality, and feels the boundary between self and world is 100% real, not “relative” but totally real, you don’t consider there is some illusion at play there? Nature of reality being totally “hidden” so one only sees the separate, vs “seeing” both, the absolute and the relative self structure and the forms, in the open state.

5 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

 

There is no illusion, because the person who perceives only duality is perceiving a real duality. The point is not to realize that this duality is false and that everything is one, but rather to open your perception to the total nature of reality.

It is not a matter of saying, "Oh yes, I understand that reality is a totality"; it is about stepping beyond forms,.here and now, and opening your perception to the total nature of what you are. It is not a realization; it is an action.

You must let go of absolutely all attachment to form for a moment; you do not need to be truly indifferent to everything, but simply capable of making the move to step out of form. This requires total honesty and clarity, not becoming a monk. Then you, the self/object structure created by evolution to model information exchange between the organism and its environment, become reality itself perceiving reality.

The eye that looks at God is God. The self-reflective structure does not disappear; instead, it dissolves its boundaries and opens itself to absolute being. Thus, even if you return to a dual state, reality becomes fluid, devoid of absolute limits, and its vitality, its affirmative and limitless character, becomes perceptible. You clearly perceive that the absence of limits is absolute vitality, and that you are exactly that. It's not an individual, an entity, it's just unlimited, but that's everything. You must stop the attachment to be "someone", even a god. What you are is absolute vastness that lives. I don't know if you can see the challenge that is let go the "someone". There is the real point. 

[Breakingthewall]

What I meant is not that you realise that you are an entity that is limitless, but that what you are is limitlessness. It's impossible to think. Now veganawake would say that this is another ego inflation.

No, the reality is, and you are the reality taking the form of a self. This self can open the eye that it ultimately is and perceive what is it's ultimate nature. It's absolutely impossible to think, because thought are always limited. You have to break the limit, and be the unlimited. It's not someone, not a god, it's just unlimited. Not someone unlimited, just unlimited. But this implies everything. It's total, it's what you are looking for 

Edited 11 hours ago by Breakingthewall