Humans were never meant to wake up from the dream

[Hyperion]

2 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Yes, I understand what you’re saying.

No offense, but your posts and replies don't make it sound like you do. 

6 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

If the Absolute has no opposite. Then there’s no relative, there’s no dream.

"There’s no relative" is a relative perspective.

"There’s no dream" is a relative perspective.

Even "the Absolute has no opposite" is ultimately a relative perspective. 

See, you are still trying to hold on to certain particular perspectives / illusions and construct a specific worldview / identity that is based on these perspectives. Which isn't necessarily a "wrong" thing to do... it's just that being attached to said perspectives keeps you stuck in delusion.

10 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

There’s just the Absolute, but how would the Absolute has no opposite know it’s without opposite, and what would Absolute even mean to the Absolute?

Maybe this helps.

 

[Mellowmarsh]

23 minutes ago, Hyperion said:

No offense, but your posts and replies don't make it sound like you do. 

"There’s no relative" is a relative perspective.

"There’s no dream" is a relative perspective.

Even "the Absolute has no opposite" is ultimately a relative perspective. 

See, you are still trying to hold on to certain particular perspectives / illusions and construct a specific worldview / identity that is based on these perspectives. Which isn't necessarily a "wrong" thing to do... it's just that being attached to said perspectives keeps you stuck in delusion.

Maybe this helps.

 

Right, so all you’re saying now is that only the relative is known. All there is is the dream and nothing known beyond the dream.

[Hyperion]

23 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Right, so all you’re saying now is that only the relative is known.

What I am saying is what I wrote in the OP of my thread: You can only experience / be conscious of specific parts or aspects of reality that "stand out" by contrast (-> exist). The Absolute aka. the totality of reality can therefore only ever be known by approximation.

23 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

All there is is the dream and nothing known beyond the dream.

Again, that's a relative perspective... meaning that it is both relatively true and relatively untrue. 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Hyperion

[Mellowmarsh]

58 minutes ago, Hyperion said:

What I am saying is what I wrote in the OP of my thread: You can only experience / be conscious of specific parts or aspects of reality that "stand out" by contrast (-> exist). The Absolute aka. the totality of reality can therefore only ever be known by approximation.

Again, that's a relative perspective... meaning that it is both relatively true and relatively untrue. 

 

Okay, I understand what you are saying, and I have no quibble with. I agree with you. 
 

That’s what I’m showing here in this thread. We were never meant to wake up to the totality of absolute being because only the relative is experienced, not the absolute. 

[Hyperion]

Just now, Mellowmarsh said:

We were never meant to wake up to the totality of absolute being because only the relative is experienced, not the absolute. 

Well again, "we were never meant to XYZ" is a relatively (in)valid statement that in one sense is true and in another sense is untrue.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that what we call life is nothing but a continuous and neverending "waking up" process. Without this ongoing process, there could and would be no experience of reality, because where there is no evolution, there is no change and therefore no contrast.

But of course, that's just another relative perspective, so make of it what you will. 

[Mellowmarsh]

1 hour ago, Hyperion said:

Well again, "we were never meant to XYZ" is a relatively (in)valid statement that in one sense is true and in another sense is untrue.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that what we call life is nothing but a continuous and neverending "waking up" process. Without this ongoing process, there could and would be no experience of reality, because where there is no evolution, there is no change and therefore no contrast.

But of course, that's just another relative perspective, so make of it what you will. 

So are you now saying that evolution was what made human possible to be here to be able to say to ourselves that everything we think we know is relatively un/true and in/valid, and if not for evolution, we couldn’t have said to ourselves that everything is relatively un/true and in/valid?

 

 

[Hyperion]

5 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

So are you now saying that evolution was what made human possible to be here to be able to say to ourselves that everything we think we know is relatively un/true and in/valid, and if not for evolution, we couldn’t have said to ourselves that everything is relatively un/true and in/valid?

Relatively speaking, yes.

[Mellowmarsh]

Just now, Hyperion said:

Relatively speaking, yes.

Okay thanks.
 

 

[Hyperion]

Just now, Mellowmarsh said:

Okay thanks.

You're very welcome, honey pie. 😘

[Hyperion]

@Mellowmarsh

PS - Don't know if you've seen it, but I thought that perhaps this might interest you:

 

[Mellowmarsh]

@Hyperion I’ll take a look at the video, thanks. 

 

 

[Mellowmarsh]

I’ve watched the first 10 minutes and how I’m interpreting what he is saying is that the absolute is already the totality of everything that is was and ever will be, which has no opposite because any opposite would be relative to the absolute that already is making the relational illusory. 
 

That’s why I mentioned humans were never meant to wake up to the illusion of separation, because it would only reveal their illusory existence to them. They’d simply come to know they don’t exist in the way they thought they did, so I’m thinking it’s better that they didn’t transcend their illusory nature. Relatively speaking of course. 

 

 

[Wilhelm44]

8 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Wake up from or to..is the same waking…that wasn’t meant to be, or happen. 
 

The waking is forced by the person who consciously chooses to seek the answer to the question of who am I 

 

Which can be both a blessing and a curse.

In what sense could waking up be like a curse ?

[Mellowmarsh]

13 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

In what sense could waking up be like a curse ?

It can be a curse in the sense that humans are self aware, meaning they know they are going to die, and they know the horror of torture and pain. They know the sting of attachment when that attachment is ripped from their reality through the death of the thing they formed attachment to. And what about grief and sadness and loneliness, humans experience these feelings because of self awareness. Sometimes this can seem like a curse. And what about the sense of separation and the anxiety that separation brings to both children and adults alike, and then there’s the fear of being different and the shame and humiliation of being bullied for being different, and then there’s the scary unknown experience of what aggressive cancer can do to your body and many other painful diseases we must endure and try to combat with zero success, and then there’s traffic and airplane crashes to think about and becoming paralysed and dependent on others for your survival, also the thought of being born blind, or even going blind after many years of seeing. Then theres the horror of war and nuclear bomb threat constantly in the news, then there’s women who have to endure the painful cramps of menstruation every month, and having to bleed from their vagina every month sometimes every three weeks… that’s just the short list, there’s much more I can mention as to why waking up can be a curse. Waking up to me means becoming aware that you are conscious of being trapped inside a sentient feeling meat suit with a nervous system that feels mostly very ouchy, then there’s the heartbreak of divorce and the pain of poverty and rising cost of living, and there’s nothing you can do about any of it. 

[Wilhelm44]

9 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

It can be a curse in the sense that humans are self aware, meaning they know they are going to die, and they know the horror of torture and pain. They know the sting of attachment when that attachment is ripped from their reality through the death of the thing they formed attachment to. And what about grief and sadness and loneliness, humans experience these feelings because of self awareness. Sometimes this can seem like a curse. And what about the sense of separation and the anxiety that separation brings to both children and adults alike, and then there’s the fear of being different and the shame and humiliation of being bullied for being different, and then there’s the scary unknown experience of what aggressive cancer can do to your body and many other painful diseases we must endure and try to combat with zero success, and then there’s traffic and airplane crashes to think about and becoming paralysed and dependent on others for your survival, also the thought of being born blind, or even going blind after many years of seeing. Then theres the horror of war and nuclear bomb threat constantly in the news, then there’s women who have to endure the painful cramps of menstruation every month, and having to bleed from their vagina every month sometimes every three weeks… that’s just the short list, there’s much more I can mention as to why waking up can be a curse. Waking up to me means becoming aware that you are conscious of being trapped inside a sentient feeling meat suit with a nervous system that feels mostly very ouchy, then there’s the heartbreak of divorce and the pain of poverty and rising cost of living, and there’s nothing you can do about any of it. 

I'm not sure I understand.

Are you saying it would be better to suffer the hardships of life while we are ignorant of our true nature, than to be awake and go through the hardships of life ?

[Mellowmarsh]

Just now, Wilhelm44 said:

I'm not sure I understand.

Are you saying it would be better to suffer the hardships of life while we are ignorant of our true nature, than to be awake and go through the hardships of life ?

I’m saying that our true nature is to watch ourself experience the good the bad and the ugly, the whole enchilada in fact. And there’s nothing we can do about any of it, except watch forever infinitely for eternity. Nothing can stop it because nothing started it. But we endure and that’s the remarkable thing about it. It’s enduringly endurable otherwise it wouldn’t be happening.

[Jehovah increases]

No, but God was meant to awaken from the dream.

[Mellowmarsh]

3 minutes ago, Jehovah increases said:

No, but God was meant to awaken from the dream.

Gods only existence is within the dream that cannot wake up from.

[Jehovah increases]

Just now, Mellowmarsh said:

Gods only existence is within the dream that cannot wake up from.

God has already woken up from the dream that is not God's only existence.

[Mellowmarsh]

Just now, Jehovah increases said:

God has already woken up from the dream that is not God's only existence.

Already awake that never sleeps. The only one existence.