Ramana Maharshi’s Secret

[Wilhelm44]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Knowledge is a structured description of reality, it's not a fiction. Could be wrong or right, I know that those non dual teachers are against thought, but that's because they can't think properly, it's not so easy. 

They not against thought lol. Simply pointing out that language is a human invention. Meaning is made up, it's not baked into reality.

[Breakingthewall]

18 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

It’s a fiction, you only believe to be real. Show a ten ton brick of gold to a dog and watch its reaction, it doesn’t say wow that’s going to buy me some super luxurious life. It hasn’t got a clue what gold or money is. The dog just lives in the present unknowable. 

Show a hungry dog a kg of meat , then it would know that it's valuable. Show an atom of oxygen two atoms of hydrogen, they would form water. 

Edited 13 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

17 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

They not against thought lol. Simply pointing out that language is a human invention. Meaning is made up, it's not baked into reality.

Sure, it's out of reality. Reality is everything except language. Ah, what means "lol"? That you are condescending or anything? Like a baby being condescending with and adult ? Lol. 

[kavaris]

We cant even define language. Language could be someone winking.

Language could be when the wolf crosses the moonlit crossing, like what is language?

Language could be / mean anything, see below

Edited 12 hours ago by kavaris

[kavaris]

To talk about it is to ask each other what we are talking about, to figure out "Are we talking bout language language, like grammar, rules, sounds, that stuff... or is it the greater world of language, images, ideas, concepts, inventions, spirals in nature, flora and fauna, materials, etc.

[Wilhelm44]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Sure, it's out of reality. Reality is everything except language. Ah, what means "lol"? That you are condescending or anything? Like a baby being condescending with and adult ? Lol. 

Not at all, not being condescending, not my thing. I just notice that over and over you seem to imply that radical nonduality etc is somehow in denial of reality. Quite the opposite is true. When the sense of a separate me falls away rapidly, life actually feels more intense, in the sense that emotions are experienced more raw, ie less resistance, like a baby crying freely.

Edited 11 hours ago by Wilhelm44

[Mellowmarsh]

12 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Not at all, not being condescending, not my thing. I just notice that over and over you seem to imply that radical nonduality etc is somehow in denial of reality. Quite the opposite is true. When the sense of a separate me falls away rapidly, life actually feels more intense, in the sense that emotions are experienced more raw, ie less resistance, like a baby crying freely.

Well said. 😎

 

The thing is, only 1 out of 5 million people ever fully grasp the concept of nonduality. So it’s perfectly normal for the remaining people who don’t grasp its meaning to fully reject it, even fight to the death to defend their defencelessness. 
That’s why most people choose to stay asleep, it’s more comfortable and familiar.

[Mellowmarsh]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Show a hungry dog a kg of meat , then it would know that it's valuable.

No, there’s just the raw experience of eating without any thought involvement as to whether it’s a valuable experience.

A dog will even eat it’s own vomit, it doesn’t understand value, the vomit is still as good as the food before it was regurgitated.

You’re barking up the wrong tree again. 

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

No, there’s just the raw experience of eating without any thought involvement as to whether it’s a valuable experience.

A dog will even eat it’s own vomit, it doesn’t understand value, the vomit is still as good as the food before it was regurgitated.

You’re barking up the wrong tree again. 

If you are one of those chosen between 5 million it's normal that nobody here is in your level, but anyway, a dog knows that you are going to give it food, also knows that you aren't going to give because he peed in your bed, also knows if you are angry, sad, a lot of things 

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Not at all, not being condescending, not my thing. I just notice that over and over you seem to imply that radical nonduality etc is somehow in denial of reality. Quite the opposite is true. When the sense of a separate me falls away rapidly, life actually feels more intense, in the sense that emotions are experienced more raw, ie less resistance, like a baby crying freely.

What is the sense of separate self? What do you prefer, that I broke your leg, or my leg? It's the same for you?

[Wilhelm44]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

What is the sense of separate self? What do you prefer, that I broke your leg, or my leg? It's the same for you?

I prefer that you dont break any legs. Survival instincts of the body dont fall away, or at least not in my experience. Separate self is a sense of being separate from life, of being incomplete, of believing ur the thinker, taking personal ownership of thoughts and emotions, believing in free will etc. The me here hasn't 'fallen away' permanently yet, but memories dont have a sense of me anymore, and suffering related to the 'past' has disappeared.

[Mellowmarsh]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you are one of those chosen between 5 million it's normal that nobody here is in your level, but anyway, a dog knows that you are going to give it food, also knows that you aren't going to give because he peed in your bed, also knows if you are angry, sad, a lot of things 

Anyways, getting back to the original point, dogs don’t know they know. Unlike humans who do not lack metacognition.

Metacognition is unique to humans serving as an interpretive story ( fiction ) we tell ourselves after the fact.

 

 

[Mellowmarsh]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you are one of those chosen 

I’ve noticed you’ve said a few times the “chosen one’s” 

 That’s nonsense, it’s not an understanding specifically designed only for the “chosen one’s” to know. It’s is not a personal achievement, it’s either understood or it’s not, and when it is, it is consciousness recognising its own universal interconnected nature.
For Human mind there’s a sense of separation that helps them function in the physical world. Beneath the surface of everyday thoughts lies a continuous field of existence where everything is fundamentally connected. 
 

Awakening doesn’t mean 'you' awaken. It means that there is only awakening. There is no 'you' who is awake; there is only awakeness. That’s what Ramana is pointing to in the op video.

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

I prefer that you dont break any legs. Survival instincts of the body dont fall away, or at least not in my experience. Separate self is a sense of being separate from life, of being incomplete, of believing ur the thinker, taking personal ownership of thoughts and emotions, believing in free will etc. The me here hasn't 'fallen away' permanently yet, but memories dont have a sense of me anymore, and suffering related to the 'past' has disappeared.

It's not survival instinct of the body, is your feeling as a separate self because you are that. Look, if they ask you: in two months we are going to break your legs with anesthesia and no suffering, but 4 months recovering, or the legs of that ashhol breakingthewall. Make a choice.

Of if the lock you 3 years alone in a dark room. Would you feel complete? No because you are a social being with a self that has to be interconnected. 

What you are talking about is not about absence of self but about the dissolution of the absolute limits between you and reality, being one with the reality as a relative self. Because you are a relative self and non duality is extremely bad explained by people with low level of understanding, even they meditate a lot 

Edited 1 hour ago by Breakingthewall

[Wilhelm44]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's not survival instinct of the body, is your feeling as a separate self because you are that. Look, if they ask you: in two months we are going to break your legs with anesthesia and no suffering, but 4 months recovering, or the legs of that ashhol breakingthewall. Make a choice.

Of if the lock you 3 years alone in a dark room. Would you feel complete? No because you are a social being with a self that has to be interconnected. 

What you are talking about is not about absence of self but about the dissolution of the absolute limits between you and reality, being one with the reality as a relative self. Because you are a relative self and non duality is extremely bad explained by people with low level of understanding, even they meditate a lot 

Can you pinpoint the moments you decided to have these thoughts above, or did they arise instantaneously by themselves ?

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Can you pinpoint the moments you decided to have these thoughts above, or did they arise instantaneously by themselves ?

The self is the reality manifested as a self. The self is a structure that arises in the complex living beings that creates a model of the exchange of information exterior and interior and interacts and are connected with its pairs. Thoughts, feelings, sensation of the body, need of survival, need of communication, are programming created by evolution that makes that self as it is. 

This self has will created by the evolution, and it is absolutely real. But this self is not different than the reality, is the reality structured as a self. Then this self, that knows that is, can dissolve the absolute separation between it and the reality and be the absolute reality appearing as a self that knows that is. 

This doesn't mean that the self is absolute, just that is. The reality doesn't need a self, but as a self is possible, it is. So open yourself to the unlimited, and be the unlimited knowing that is. 

Edited 46 minutes ago by Breakingthewall

[Wilhelm44]

36 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The self is the reality manifested as a self. The self is a structure that arises in the complex living beings that creates a model of the exchange of information exterior and interior and interacts and are connected with its pairs. Thoughts, feelings, sensation of the body, need of survival, need of communication, are programming created by evolution that makes that self as it is. 

This self has will created by the evolution, and it is absolutely real. But this self is not different than the reality, is the reality structured as a self. Then this self, that knows that is, can dissolve the absolute separation between it and the reality and be the absolute reality appearing as a self that knows that is. 

This doesn't mean that the self is absolute, just that is. The reality doesn't need a self, but as a self is possible, it is. So open yourself to the unlimited, and be the unlimited knowing that is. 

Yeah I guess we have different definitions for the separate self thing. 

But I can't deny my experience, and I respect yours too.