Lindsay Clancy -Mother of 3 kills her kids during psychotic episode

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Basman said:

Why would I think that's acceptable? stupid accusation. 

Like, dude. 4k someone shooting people, Columbine style. There are cases where the evidence is overwhelming, but your cherry picking one that supports your point. Zero doubt that Breivik killed massacred people, or Shoko Asahara bio terrorism.

The issue is you want to point to individual cases and paint like an intuitive picture of "surely this would be very very reasonably true", while the legal system, in the case of the death penalty, has always and probably will always use concrete standards and rules that can be applied to each case individually. If you can't provide that, we can't know whether your intuitive idea of a legal system is even possible or if it doesn't already exist somewhere.

The job would be much easier if you could say "yes I would vote for the death penalty in this country with this legal system". Right now, your position is essentially "I'm somehow not satisfied with current legal systems and would want a better one but I don't know how". And that makes it harder to say how much you would "accept" innocent lives being lost (we already know you do accept them with "basically 100%", as basically 100% is not equal to actually 100%, unless you want to walk back that statement). And no, Breivik or Columbine is not 100% (unless you have an argument for that). At most close to 100%.

 

1 hour ago, Basman said:

You just can't fathom a generalistic point it seem. 

I'm just trying to explore whether you have thought through your point to any significant degree. Because if you accuse liberals of not being serious about serious crimes, I would expect some serious thought into the policies for such crimes. If you don't have that, you're perhaps not being very serious. At least "no death penalty under any circumstance" is a clear policy position.

Edited September 20 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

@Basman There is also something I've not considered before which is botched executions. The woman below was attempted executed twice but they failed both times, and now she is in the hospital. "But she gets whatever is coming to her". Well, it's obviously still a part of the equation if you want to keep the guise as a civilized society and that you're practicing justice where punishments are performed as intended and that there is equality under the law, and of course it makes the prospect reality* of wrongful convictions even more daunting.

 

21 botched executions since year 2000 alone according to this list (seemingly only about the US): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_botched_executions

 

"Rate of botched executions in the United States from 1890 to 2010, sorted by method":

 

It says 0% for firing squad for this time period, however, recently there was also a botched firing squad execution:

"Mikal Mahdi (2025) – Firing squad. The firing squad missed the intended target, resulting in a prolonged death." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_botched_executions

 

In other words, supporting the death penalty in the form we know exists and is possible, also comes with supporting cases of needless torture. (But I'm sure you will be able to "intuition hack" your way to some hypothetical ideal that you will not realize in concrete examples like "it should definitely be possible to make executions basically 100% successful; I don't know how, but trust me, I would support this, even if I don't know the difference yet").

Edited 1 hour ago by Carl-Richard