What is the self ? What is consciousness? What is reality ? According to Advaita

[Someone here]

I will attempt my best to explain what are the fundamental teachings of Advaita Vedanta as taught by spiritual teachers like Ramana Maharshi..Robert Adams ..Nisargadatta Maharaj . Because I read a lot of confusing and conflicting opinions and discussions around these teachings on the forum . Feel free to skip if you are familiar with this information ..but don’t skip if you are confused about these teachings and you want a reminder or a clarification.

The questions which are tackled by these teachers are : what is the self ? What is the nature of consciousness? What is reality ?

the claim is that these questions have a definitive final answer if we investigate them directly and by introspection and self-inquiry. But they can never be answered definitively through abstract reasoning and armchair philosophizing alone .

your most essential identity is not the body ..or the thinking mind or the personality or personal history or your life story in the past and future.Those are appearances in consciousness.What you truly are is consciousness in which all experiences arise. But of course at the ultimate level that division collapses and there is a total unity between consciousness and appearances within it . But most people are overlooking the pure consciousness which is their essential nature and instead identifying themselves completely with those fore mentioned things .

what is the nature of consciousness? What is the nature of the self ? What is the nature of  reality?

the answer to all these questions is exactly the same ..pure consciousness. How is this known ?

by direct observation. I cannot prove logically or abstractly that consciousness is the most fundamental thing in existence and is the fundamental nature of existence. Because in theory the question:” what if consciousness is a byproduct of invisible matter or some other invisible substance? “ can be posited forever without reaching a final conclusion. But you have to understand why that is . It’s because reason and logic itself is secondary. You can’t have logic without consciousness..but you can have consciousness without logic . In fact .. you can’t have anything without consciousness. And again this conclusion can only be arrived at through consciousness itself experientially ..not through thinking . If you ask “but why is experience itself a metric of truth “? The answer is because experience is quite literally all there ever was .. is .. or will be . “But maybe experience itself is an illusion and it’s not happening despite it appearing to happen !!” . Again you can get skeptical in the abstract forever and remain lost in endless skepticism forever . The bottom line is there is no way to prove the existence of experience through thoughts . The only proof of experience is experience itself . The only way you can prove experience is happening is by experiencing experience. 
moving on. So that’s regarding the answer to the question of what is reality or what is experience or what is consciousness.

lets tackle the nature of “you “. Once again there will never be a definitive answer in theory ..only by direct observation. Self-inquiry  What is found as “you “ in direct experience? Thoughts arise but You are not the thinker because you can’t guess even the next thought popping in your mind. Actions happen like me typing these words right now but I’m not the doer because I can actually experience that the words are just being written without any clear understanding of how exactly I am doing it . They just “happen “.

so notice that I’m conscious of what is happening. Therefore I’m the consciousness that observes everything.

And once again If you get even more literal there is no clear boundary between a thought and consciousness of a thought . Therefore you could say you are the thoughts but it’s important to recognize that you are also not the thought but you are consciousness observing it.  
So the answers to the three questions:what is the self ? What is reality ? What is experience ? Are all the same . Can you tell me what it is if you’ve been following along? 
 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Someone here

[James123]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

so notice that I’m conscious of what is happening. Therefore I’m the consciousness that observes everything.

Consciousness doesn't observe anything, mind does, body does.

Consciousness is simply Being.

Anything and everything arises and falls within, therefore it, Yet it is none.

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

questions:what is the self ? What is reality ? What is experience ? Are all the same . Can you tell me what it is if you’ve been following along? 

İmagine before physical birth. That's it. No experience, thoughts, feelings can enter, all belongs to body and mind.

One's you deeply see that body is empty, mind and body is together, working together, there was never a you to experience.

You are always what You are.

[Someone here]

27 minutes ago, James123 said:

Consciousness doesn't observe anything, mind does, body does 

 But have you actually carefully examined what you are saying ? The body is nothing more than flesh and bone. It does not contain consciousness..it appears within consciousness. Every perception of the body is itself an experience arising in consciousness.No one has ever experienced a body outside of consciousness. And the  “mind” is not an object that exists somewhere in the brain or the body. There is no physical thing called the mind. It is simply a conceptual label for the continuous flow of thoughts and memories and emotions. Thoughts do not generate consciousness.. they arise within it..disappear within it and are known only because consciousness is already present.

You are not carful enough with your misinformation. I’m not saying you are misleading people on purpose but you are incapable of admitting that your perspectives might be false .

 

[James123]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

 But have you actually carefully examined what you are saying ? The body is nothing more than flesh and bone. It does not contain consciousness..it appears within consciousness. Every perception of the body is itself an experience arising in consciousness.No one has ever experienced a body outside of consciousness. And the  “mind” is not an object that exists somewhere in the brain or the body. There is no physical thing called the mind. It is simply a conceptual label for the continuous flow of thoughts and memories and emotions. Thoughts do not generate consciousness.. they arise within it..disappear within it and are known only because consciousness is already present.

You are not carful enough with your misinformation. I’m not saying you are misleading people on purpose but you are incapable of admitting that your perspectives might be false .

 

Not only body, so called thoughts creates, so called universe, including so called consciousness. 

Consciousness is nothing to speak or experience about. Anything you say, explain, experience is not it.

Entire universe is disseappears for you, when attachment ends. 

Life flows it's own, yet there is no one to be conscious. 

İf you ask, how do I tell these words, of I am not conscious, because, I don't say it, body does. And it is impossible to understand this.

As someone asks Ramana Maharsi, how it feels to be in shamadi, can you  explain? He says, it can not be speakable, only one knows who is shamadi. 

So, telling people that body writes, experience it's own, no one is behind 😂 sound of hand shakes without a hand.

[Someone here]

Just now, James123 said:

Not only body, so called thoughts creates, so called universe, including so called consciousness. 

Consciousness is nothing to speak or experience about. Anything you say, explain, experience is not it.

Entire universe is disseappears for you, when attachment ends. 

Life flows it's own, yet there is no one to be conscious. 

İf you ask, how do I tell these words, of I am not conscious, because, I don't say it, body does. And it is impossible to understand this.

As someone asks Ramana Maharsi, how it feels to be in shamadi, can you  explain? He says, it can not be speakable, only one knows who is shamadi. 

So, telling people that body writes, experience it's own, no one is behind 😂 sound of hand shakes without a hand.

You are trying to point to that which can never be pointed to . I totally get what cannot be ever gotten . But this thread discusses specific topics.

[James123]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

You are trying to point to that which can never be pointed to . I totally get what cannot be ever gotten . But this thread discusses specific topics.

All I am saying is shamadi or enlightenment or Being or Consciousness is total disseparing.

Or as public speach, the soul leaves the body while body is alive.

Or as Rumi says, dying before dying.

[Someone here]

Just now, James123 said:

All I am saying is shamadi or enlightenment or Being or Consciousness is total disseparing.

Or as public speach, the soul leaves the body while body is alive.

Or as Rumi says, dying before dying.

Ok you’re totally inconsistent. I don’t know what to make of your statements . 

[James123]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Ok you’re totally inconsistent. I don’t know what to make of your statements . 

The reason of my post is, your main post.

All I am saying, anytime you try to understand, or ask, you step out. 

Unless, your purpose is understanding, you want to understand consciousness. 

İf it is , I am sorry. 

But, if you wanna be what You always are, consider my post.

Best my brother, 

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, James123 said:

The reason of my post is, your main post.

All I am saying, anytime you try to understand, or ask, you step out. 

Unless, your purpose is understanding, you want to understand consciousness. 

İf it is , I am sorry. 

But, if you wanna be what You always are, consider my post.

Best my brother, 

I clearly stated that it’s sickening to me to read the same confused discussions everyday on this forum about these topics . 

i clearly stated the questions of my inquiry.

i clearly stated that these questions can never be closed off by thinking about them abstractly but only through direct investigation. 
I clearly pointed out to you the falsity of saying the mind and body observe consciousness instead of consciousness observing them . 
im not going to discuss this topic theoretically . If what you are saying fails against empirical investigation then it’s not worth anything . 
no need to say I’m sorry . It’s okay . 

Edited 5 hours ago by Someone here

[Breakingthewall]

Don't you find it simpler and more obvious to see that consciousness is the fact of being aware of reality, that is, reality being aware of itself, instead of the idea that reality is consciousness? Why would reality be consciousness?

By the way, Nisgardatta didn't say that reality is consciousness.

[James123]

22 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I clearly stated that it’s sickening to me to read the same confused discussions everyday on this forum about these topics . 

i clearly stated the questions of my inquiry.

i clearly stated that these questions can never be closed off by thinking about them abstractly but only through direct investigation. 
I clearly pointed out to you the falsity of saying the mind and body observe consciousness instead of consciousness observing them . 
im not going to discuss this topic theoretically . If what you are saying fails against empirical investigation then it’s not worth anything . 
no need to say I’m sorry . It’s okay . 

💓 

[Breakingthewall]

22 minutes ago, Someone here said:

clearly stated that these questions can never be closed off by thinking about them abstractly but only through

Id say that the answer is extremely obvious and can be understood by the conceptual mind. 

Reality, as physics explains, is the unfolding of coherent relationships. This occurs because there is nothing to restrict it; therefore, a universe, which is essentially a coherent mathematical equation, unfolds.

In that universe, what is possible happens, simply because it is possible, for no other reason. Within the realm of possibility, the emergence of a sufficiently complex process to create a model of the interaction between interior and exterior occurs.

This model is a process in itself within the process that the organism is. This is consciousness; it's quite simple, isn't it? Why seek metaphysical explanations? Reality is already metaphysical.

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Don't you find it simpler and more obvious to see that consciousness is the fact of being aware of reality, that is, reality being aware of itself, instead of the idea that reality is consciousness? Why would reality be consciousness?

That was answered clearly in OP.

It’s not a question of“Why would it be that way?” or “Isn’t a simpler explanation better?” .Those are curious questions but they’re speculative. They  don’t determine what is true.The more fundamental question is: What is undeniably present?

The one thing that cannot be doubted is consciousness itself. Every thought..perception..memory and  even your belief in a reality Independent of consciousness and scientific observation appear within consciousness. We have never encountered anything outside of experience..and experience is inseparable from consciousness.

consciousness is epistemically fundamental..it is the necessary condition for anything to be known or experienced at all. Whatever reality ultimately is.. it is only ever encountered through consciousness.

So if consciousness is fundamental.. that conclusion is not based on speculation about what reality should be like ..but on recognizing the one undeniable fact . 

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Someone here

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Id say that the answer is extremely obvious and can be understood by the conceptual mind. 

Reality, as physics explains, is the unfolding of coherent relationships. This occurs because there is nothing to restrict it; therefore, a universe, which is essentially a coherent mathematical equation, unfolds.

In that universe, what is possible happens, simply because it is possible, for no other reason. Within the realm of possibility, the emergence of a sufficiently complex process to create a model of the interaction between interior and exterior occurs.

This model is a process in itself within the process that the organism is. This is consciousness; it's quite simple, isn't it? Why seek metaphysical explanations? Reality is already metaphysical.

This is theorizing and abstraction. Pure falsehood .you’re 180 degrees on the wrong direction.

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

consciousness is epistemically fundamental..it is the necessary condition for anything to be known or experienced at all. Whatever reality ultimately is.. it is only ever encountered through consciousness

40 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 

Agree that consciousness is necessary condition for anything to be known. Well, not exactly, I would say that consciousness is the fact of "knowing", are synonyms. 

But then you do a jump: as what I am is consciousness, this fact of knowing that I am, means that I can never get out of this "experience", so the reality is this experience . This is not a logical implication. It's like saying, as I can't fly, fly doesn't exist. Well, maybe it doesn't exist for you, but the possibility exist, same than a reality unknown 

Edited 4 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

This is theorizing and abstraction. Pure falsehood .you’re 180 degrees on the wrong direction.

Oh, what a solid argument! I am a blasphemer? I'm sorry, I won't participate in religious argument, believe what makes you feel safe, forget what I said. 

Anyway, saying that as you can't go out of your experience only your experience exist is also a logical deduction. Only that little, let's say.....well, I don't know the exact word. Imagine one. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Someone here]

@Breakingthewall what you’re overlooking is I clearly set the rules straight from the get go . 
no speculations ..no theorizing .. no thought experiments. 
only direct investigation. 

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Someone here said:

@Breakingthewall what you’re overlooking is I clearly set the rules straight from the get go . 
no speculations ..no theorizing .. no thought experiments. 
only direct investigation. 

Then shut up and empty your mind of ideas until no structure remains. Then what is absolutely obvious will manifest 

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then shut up and empty your mind of ideas until no structure remains. Then what is absolutely obvious will manifest 

And when you shut up what is left ? This  below ? lol

19 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Id say that the answer is extremely obvious and can be understood by the conceptual mind. 

Reality, as physics explains, is the unfolding of coherent relationships. This occurs because there is nothing to restrict it; therefore, a universe, which is essentially a coherent mathematical equation, unfolds.

In that universe, what is possible happens, simply because it is possible, for no other reason. Within the realm of possibility, the emergence of a sufficiently complex process to create a model of the interaction between interior and exterior occurs.

This model is a process in itself within the process that the organism is. This is consciousness; it's quite simple, isn't it? Why seek metaphysical explanations? Reality is already metaphysical.

 

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Someone here said:

And when you shut up what is left ? This  below ? lol

When the mind is absolutely empty only one fact remains: unlimited being. That doesn't mean "consciousness", because "consciousness" is still an structure that implies the fact of being aware, then a duality. Even they will say that this is non duality. In absolute absence of barriers the unlimited being manifest.  For example nisgardatta explains it quite good, Ramana not so good. 

Then, after that absolute and obvious openess, you can deduct using the logical mind and the observation how the reality is structured. If you live in the 4 century, maybe you could arrive to the conclusion that everything is consciousness and you are dreaming, but nowadays we know about physics and we can do better deductions. 

But enlightenment is always the same: unlimited being