The aestheticization of the past

[Carl-Richard]

When things get sufficiently removed from oneself into the past, we start to view it more through aesthetic than the brutal factual reality. We see this with the Vikings, pirates, Romans, Spartans. We start viewing them as cool, even noble somehow, perhaps despite the factual reality, and we even identify with them. 

Look at the Norwegian football fans during the World Cup role-playing as Vikings with their "Ro!" chant. The Vikings were essentially what Islamic terrorist groups like ISIS and Al-Qaida are today. Violent, ruthless killers, slaughtering everyone in their way, doing surprise attacks on larger cities and settlements. Norwegians are terrified of Islamic terrorists, yet they identify with the Vikings. The distinction is the separation of the far past and the immediate threat towards their survival. Remove the immediate threat to survival and you start viewing them in a different light.

"But their ideology is different, that's why Norwegians don't like Islamic terrorists". Yes, different from their own, so it threatens their survival because it threathens them now. But is it really different from the ideology of the Vikings if you look at the pure structure rather than the content? Violent Islamic jihadism is not really that dissimilar from violent Norse paganism.

Also, pre-agricultural hunter-gatherers, who couldn't be more different from oneself ideologically, also get the aesthetic treatment. There is even the idea that they were somehow enlightened or peaceful, living in perfect harmony with nature with egalitarian and matriarchical tribal structures, when that probably couldn't be further from the truth. This image crashes immediately once you replace "pre-agricultural hunter-gatherers" with "uncontacted jungle savages", and you see how when you meet these people in the present, you will end up with an arrow through your eye before anything else you can "gather" from them (talk about "aesthetics").

And of course, pirates get the Johnny Depp treatment, the Romans get the "every movie ever made about Ancient Rome" treatment, Spartans get the movie "300" treatment, etc.

It wouldn't surprise me if 1000 years into the future and if violent Islamic jihadism has somehow become a thing of the past, Norwegians (or whatever they're called) start viewing violent Islamic jihadists as something cool, a bit like pirates, or the Vikings.

Edited 1 hour ago by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

I call this: Every culture whitewashes its past.

"Slavery was actually good for the slaves."

It's also a great example of how cartoonish self-bias is.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Opulence]

Romanticizing of brutality because it's a figment of the past. We also do this with unconscious things like trauma.

 

[Stick]

Well cause its beautiful duh! The only thing that prevents us from seeing the beauty of terror and brutality is our survival mechanism.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I call this: Every culture whitewashes its past.

"Slavery was actually good for the slaves."

It's also a great example of how cartoonish self-bias is.

When it's one's own culture/ancestors, it's even more powerful because you "were" them and the identification is more obvious (simple "our side", in-group vs out-group dynamic), but it even happens with other cultures, given sufficient distance into the past. You might feel more pulled to justify the ills of your own ancestors (just like you justify your own ills today), while other people in the past you just view as more neutral because their ills don't affect you (you don't perhaps feel as pulled to justify them but simply ignore them).

[Leo Gura]

@Carl-Richard In psychology there is a well known phenomenon called rosey retrospection.

Even WW2 can look romantic in retrospect from a distance.

The mind forgets the most ugly parts of the past.

What book is gonna portray the rape and pillage of pirates accurately?

Edited 59 minutes ago by Leo Gura

[Jirh]

Context matters. And it's much simpler than this.

No Norwegian is thinking about killing the other team or enslaving them. They're just demonstrating that they're coming from a strong origin that's not to be taken lightly.

It's a way of demanding respect from the opponent, confidently and shamelessly, without actually committing a crime.

Vikings represent strength and victory. That's all.