Easiest "pick up" lines, share your own

[Miguel1]

2 minutes ago, Valach said:

What you do not realise that this type of thinking is exactly coming from a place where you are putting her above her and thus you think you need to control your behaviour in some ways.

Yes, good point.

Todd V has some great technical stuff, but it often sacrifices your inner game, as you become too try-hard internally, even when you don’t show it outwards. And the fact that you have to also manage not showing it externally, fucks your inner game even more.

The more I mature, the more I like to just go direct, while my body communicates ”interested but you gotta have way more than just looks”.

[Valach]

1 minute ago, Miguel1 said:

Yes, good point.

Todd V has some great technical stuff, but it often sacrifices your inner game, as you become too try-hard internally, even when you don’t show it outwards. And the fact that you have to also manage not showing it externally, fucks your inner game even more.

The more I mature, the more I like to just go direct, while my body communicates ”interested but you gotta have way more than just looks”.

Trusting your body is all you really need  

[Ulax]

19 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Ideally this is done with your presence, eye contact, tone of voice and body language.

Playing these word games can get yourself too heavily in your head.

I respect your experience and results with pick up, so i will respect it is very possible there is something I am missing.

But I watched a Todd V video which said that it doesn't work to communicate interest via those ways. So, it seems you two are in disagreement.

[Valach]

5 minutes ago, Ulax said:

I respect your experience and results with pick up, so i will respect it is very possible there is something I am missing.

But I watched a Todd V video which said that it doesn't work to communicate interest via those ways. So, it seems you two are in disagreement.

I have found his perspective deeply limited. He has his place in the community, but it feels like he never actually moved on from technical game.

[Ulax]

12 minutes ago, Valach said:

What you do not realise that this type of thinking is exactly coming from a place where you are putting her above her and thus you think you need to control your behaviour in some ways.

I see your point regarding the low-value self-concept starting point. Why not focus on changing that to being better and an interested not sold frame emerges naturally.

But I doubt how possible it is to change that self-concept sufficiently on your own such that you start automatically communicating a interested not sold frame automatically. My view is that self-concept changes relies a lot on corrective experiences. And so to genuinely get an interested not sold frame with a girl you have to get results with that type of women before. But to get those results in the first place you need to speak from an attractive frame such as interested not sold.

[Miguel1]

32 minutes ago, Ulax said:

I respect your experience and results with pick up, so i will respect it is very possible there is something I am missing.

But I watched a Todd V video which said that it doesn't work to communicate interest via those ways. So, it seems you two are in disagreement.

Todd is a head first person.

Watch some of the more natural styles like Owen. He can show full intent with words, while his presence communicates non-attachment.

That being said, I don’t want to bash Todd. I’ve gotten a lot of value from him. But I would say his style works very well for people who are already naturally charming. Some great lines and techniques will just heavily highlight their charm and attractiveness.

But most people getting into game, does so because they are not charming to begin with. Lines and techniques will get them stuck in their heads like no other. I know a few Todd students, and their game is awful.

Edited 4 hours ago by Miguel1

[Ulax]

Just now, Valach said:

I have found his perspective deeply limited. He has his place in the community, but it feels like he never actually moved on from technical game.

What are your critiques?

I agree he is very technical game.

I follow him almost exclusively because I can actually spark attraction and flip the script with his teachings. Before I did a lot of practice in pick up but with little result. Tho that was mostly from youtube videos rather than a course.

[Valach]

Just now, Ulax said:

What are your critiques?

I agree he is very technical game.

I follow him almost exclusively because I can actually spark attraction and flip the script with his teachings. Before I did a lot of practice in pick up but with little result. Tho that was mostly from youtube videos rather than a course.

He can be an alright stepping stone. The thing is that he still "games". My approach to this is through self esteem and inner work. Essentially just being completely fine with yourself and this emanating from you. Not using any techniques or game to try to provoke reaction. Not hiding behind a mask of a charismatic person.

But what you find after that is that the drive to go out and get woman in the first place might go down quite a bit. Which is obvious onto why.

[Valach]

17 minutes ago, Ulax said:

I see your point regarding the low-value self-concept starting point. Why not focus on changing that to being better and an interested not sold frame emerges naturally.

But I doubt how possible it is to change that self-concept sufficiently on your own such that you start automatically communicating a interested not sold frame automatically. My view is that self-concept changes relies a lot on corrective experiences. And so to genuinely get an interested not sold frame with a girl you have to get results with that type of women before. But to get those results in the first place you need to speak from an attractive frame such as interested not sold.

Not my experience. Actually quite the opposite. I have met many man who even after getting the "attractive" woman were still not feeling good enough deep in their body. It then leads to the player lifestyle where you are addicted to the validation of woman (because you do not feel good enough in the first place so you need to medicate it). It is not a route towards healthy relationships, if that is your goal.

Edited 4 hours ago by Valach

[Ulax]

14 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Yes, good point.

Todd V has some great technical stuff, but it often sacrifices your inner game, as you become too try-hard internally, even when you don’t show it outwards. And the fact that you have to also manage not showing it externally, fucks your inner game even more.

The more I mature, the more I like to just go direct, while my body communicates ”interested but you gotta have way more than just looks”.

I get what you're saying. I can see how in myself the focus on all the tactics and intricasies makes me more try-hard internally, at least for now. For example, instead of just seeing how things go and self-amusing you have a set of high-value frame you want to instill.

However,  I would point out that you have seemingly had a lot of positive results with pickup and women. And essentially you are the high-value guy that game tries to get girls to perceive newbies as. So you naturally convey high-value. Therefore, you don't need to rely on consciously setting high-value frames and can therefore afford not to focus on technicals to set frames. Whereas for a newbie or game-struggler they are, at least in game terms, a low-value guy and therefore convey low-value to girls. So, they need to consciously focus on setting high-value frames. This also applies to intermediates who struggle with various categories of women or struggle to get the quality of interaction they want.

[Valach]

8 minutes ago, Ulax said:

I get what you're saying. I can see how in myself the focus on all the tactics and intricasies makes me more try-hard internally, at least for now. For example, instead of just seeing how things go and self-amusing you have a set of high-value frame you want to instill.

However,  I would point out that you have seemingly had a lot of positive results with pickup and women. And essentially you are the high-value guy that game tries to get girls to perceive newbies as. So you naturally convey high-value. Therefore, you don't need to rely on consciously setting high-value frames and can therefore afford not to focus on technicals to set frames. Whereas for a newbie or game-struggler they are, at least in game terms, a low-value guy and therefore convey low-value to girls. So, they need to consciously focus on setting high-value frames. This also applies to intermediates who struggle with various categories of women or struggle to get the quality of interaction they want.

Yeah, the issue is that the more you consciously try to appear high-value, the more you condition yourself that you are not high value in the first place. 

[Ulax]

6 minutes ago, Valach said:

Not my experience. Actually quite the opposite. I have met many man who even after getting the "attractive" woman were still not feeling good enough deep in their body. It then leads to the player lifestyle where you are addicted to the validation of woman (because you do not feel good enough in the first place so you need to medicate it).

If you have met many men like that then it makes sense you would come to that conclusion. That is a fair point.

However, I don't see how this is a critique of whether his techniques work with women. And this reminds me of a critique i have of ex-puas who then talk of the ills of puas. They seem to get a lot of results from pickup and then they move onto the meeting of higher-needs. And then in pursuit of those higher-needs they see things like the validation wound being at the core of their pickup drive, or how they were addicted to power searching. However, they ignore the many needs and problems that without pickup they would still be affected by. For example, having low social standing in society because of struggling with women, not meeting your sexual needs, not being able to get the type of women you want and having to settle for someone who ends up with a LOT of power over you, lack of confidence, and very importantly BAD SUBCOMMUNICATIONS (successful pickup dudes can afford to stop game because their experiences in game mean they naturally exude higher-value). Take Neil Strauss, for example, dude did the whole pua thing then went into therapy and said pickup was toxic. He made many fair points but I doubt Neil would have had the success and same level of relationship he had today without game. And im sure part of the reason his relationship works is because he has good sub communications from his success with women.

[Ulax]

7 minutes ago, Valach said:

Yeah, the issue is that the more you consciously try to appear high-value, the more you condition yourself that you are not high value in the first place. 

I get the argument that trying to set high-value frames naturally implies you are not high-value to yourself to some degree.

However, I see it as a question not of what would be perfect if it existed. But what is the best approach that exists. I don't know of any other way of making high-value frames automatic that don't come from corrective experiences with each type of women. However, we can't just get those corrective-experiences from a product. We're in a catch-22. The corrective-experience is the best way to get the girl but to get the girl we need the corrective-experience. So there has to be an imperfect bridge we use to get those corrective-experience, and to me that is consciously trying to appear as high-value. I used to believe therapy or mind work could do that but i'm very skeptical of that these days.

Edited 4 hours ago by Ulax

[Valach]

4 minutes ago, Ulax said:

If you have met many men like that then it makes sense you would come to that conclusion. That is a fair point.

However, I don't see how this is a critique of whether his techniques work with women. And this reminds me of a critique i have of ex-puas who then talk of the ills of puas. They seem to get a lot of results from pickup and then they move onto the meeting of higher-needs. And then in pursuit of those higher-needs they see things like the validation wound being at the core of their pickup drive, or how they were addicted to power searching. However, they ignore the many needs and problems that without pickup they would still be affected by. For example, having low social standing in society because of struggling with women, not meeting your sexual needs, not being able to get the type of women you want and having to settle for someone who ends up with a LOT of power over you, lack of confidence, and very importantly BAD SUBCOMMUNICATIONS (successful pickup dudes can afford to stop game because their experiences in game mean they naturally exude higher-value). Take Neil Strauss, for example, dude did the whole pua thing then went into therapy and said pickup was toxic. He made many fair points but I doubt Neil would have had the success and same level of relationship he had today without game. And im sure part of the reason his relationship works is because he has good sub communications from his success with women.

Yea, because you are in paradigm where success with woman is above all so you do not carefully evaluate what impact it has on your self esteem, how healthy and sustainable this lifestyle is.

[Valach]

2 minutes ago, Ulax said:

I get the argument that trying to set high-value frames naturally implies you are not high-value to yourself to some degree.

However, I see it as a question not of what would be perfect if it existed. But what is the best approach that exists. I don't know of any other way of properly instilling high-value frames in your mind that don't come from corrective experiences with each type of women. However, we can't just get those corrective-experiences from a product. So there has to be an imperfect bridge we use to get those corrective-experience, and to me that is consciously trying to appear as high-value. I used to believe therapy or mind work could do that but i'm very skeptical of that these days.

Have you tried being congruent and authentic? Even when it means you will not appear attractive? Have you tried connecting to that part of yourself?

[Ulax]

Just now, Valach said:

Yea, because you are in paradigm where success with woman is above all so you do not carefully evaluate what impact it has on your self esteem, how healthy and sustainable this lifestyle is.

Well now you are making assumptions. And are talking about a different topic.

[Ulax]

Just now, Valach said:

Have you tried being congruent and authentic? Even when it means you will not appear attractive? Have you tried connecting to that part of yourself?

Yes. I tried that a lot. Found it not very effective with women.

But again you are talking about a different topic. Emotional well-being and the effectiveness of different game-styles are very different. I want to talk about the latter. 

[Miguel1]

16 minutes ago, Ulax said:

However,  I would point out that you have seemingly had a lot of positive results with pickup and women. And essentially you are the high-value guy that game tries to get girls to perceive newbies as. So you naturally convey high-value. Therefore, you don't need to rely on consciously setting high-value frames and can therefore afford not to focus on technicals to set frames. Whereas for a newbie or game-struggler they are, at least in game terms, a low-value guy and therefore convey low-value to girls. So, they need to consciously focus on setting high-value frames. This also applies to intermediates who struggle with various categories of women or struggle to get the quality of interaction they want.

I deeply appreciate how respectful and mature your approach to the conversations here is.

My counter-argument to what you said however is, that there is a way better way to do all that: be social with people, let loose and have fun, generate social proof, get in state, escalate, lead and close.

These I believe are way more fundamental than focusing on lines and techniques, especially as a beginner.

[Valach]

4 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Well now you are making assumptions. And are talking about a different topic.

You go on a date with a woman you are attracted to. There are 2 fictional outcomes:

1. You get the "success", be it by her getting physical with you or wanting to go on another date or wanting to have a relationship. Whatever you are after in the moment.

2. You express yourself fully. But you get rejected. Perhaps in painful way.

Which outcome would you consider as bigger success?

Edited 4 hours ago by Valach

[Ulax]

Just now, Miguel1 said:

I deeply appreciate how respectful and mature your approach to the conversations here is.

Thank you man. I appreciate that.

1 minute ago, Miguel1 said:

My counter-argument to what you said however is, that there is a way better way to do all that: be social with people, let loose and have fun, generate social proof, get in state, escalate, lead and close.

These I believe are way more fundamental than focusing on lines and techniques, especially as a beginner.

I get you will have based that answer on experience. So i value what you say.

But I would struggle with how actionable that sequence is.