Great Satsang by Robert Adams

[Someone here]

I listened to this last night and man this man speaks directly to your soul and gives you the bottom line regarding complex issues that irritate every human and especially those of us who are on this path .Hope you guys listen and benefit from this. Also if you listened feel free to discuss or ask questions regarding what’s said in the satsang . 

 

[Breakingthewall]

How does he know that everything is predestined?

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

How does he know that everything is predestined?

Good question. I hope it’s not boring discussing the free will vs fatalism.

you were born as a human male .. do you remember prior to your birth as that that you  chosed that instead of being born as a female  kangaroo ?

[Mellowmarsh]

Just more of the same, rinse repeat, same as it ever was. Groundhog Day. Same old story, different new book. 

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

Good question. I hope it’s not boring discussing the free will vs fatalism.

you were born as a human male .. do you remember prior to your birth as that that you  chosed that instead of being born as a female  kangaroo ?

How could everything be predestined? Its impossible, it only could be if we assume that reality is finite and it's possible to know all the variables, if it's infinite there are infinite possible combinations for the future. Even you are god with an infinite computer you can't compute infinite variables, the result would be always infinity 

 

[Razard86]

8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

How does he know that everything is predestined?

There is only God here. If there is only one entity in existence then how can everything not be predestined. There is only one will generating everything.

Because of oneness everything is predestined. Because of infinity your life has already been lived. Everything has already happened.

You as God chose to forget the story of your life and then live it. So you experience it as spontaneous and free to sell the illusion of free will. 

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Because of oneness everything is predestined. Because of infinity your life has already been lived. Everything has already happened.

Then the infinity would be finished, so it would be finite 

[Someone here]

15 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

How could everything be predestined? Its impossible, it only could be if we assume that reality is finite and it's possible to know all the variables, if it's infinite there are infinite possible combinations for the future. Even you are god with an infinite computer you can't compute infinite variables, the result would be always infinity 

Yes the future offers infinite possibilities but it is not without limits. For instance no human can see beyond the Andromeda Galaxy with the naked eye.. we require a telescope. That is a clear limitation. In that sense the future cannot be said to be completely open to unlimited possibilities. It’s either random or determined. I can’t think of a third possibility.

If the physical universe operates according to fixed laws of physics..then the idea of absolute free will is totally absurd.

The sun rises and sets according to predictable patterns. The seasons follow a regular cycle. Even the processes within our own bodies are governed by biological and physical laws that function beyond our conscious control. If everything in nature unfolds according to such laws..then our choices are also part of that same chain of causation.

 

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

Yes the future offers infinite possibilities but it is not without limits. For instance no human can see beyond the Andromeda Galaxy with the naked eye.. we require a telescope. That is a clear limitation. In that sense the future cannot be said to be completely open to unlimited possibilities. It’s either random or determined. I can’t think of a third possibility.

If the physical universe operates according to fixed laws of physics..then the idea of absolute free will is totally absurd.

The sun rises and sets according to predictable patterns. The seasons follow a regular cycle. Even the processes within our own bodies are governed by biological and physical laws that function beyond our conscious control. If everything in nature unfolds according to such laws..then our choices are also part of that same chain of causation.

 

Yes, everything that happens is the product of a causal chain, but we are part of that chain. We can't decide whether the sun will rise or not, but we can choose between multiple variables at every moment, and this choice is not totally predestined, it's absolutely impossible because nothing is fixed, but rather highly probable. It's never 100% certain, not even that the sun will rise tomorrow.

Heisberg's uncertainty principle states that it is absolutely impossible to know the location and direction of a particle at the same time and Bell's inequalities shows that a local universe can't be determined (more or less I ve to read deeper). Not even with an infinite computer containing all the data of reality would it be possible; it's a total impossibility.

So you are a local, autonomous operator in the chain of causality, constantly deciding between variables within your narrow margin of choice, but those choices unfold along the chain of causality, creating large effects in reality. In fact, they unfold to infinity.

Of course, every other point of that chain is also making choices every moment, because the reality is unfolding at real time, it's absolutely impossible to know how are going to react all the particles and waves in the next moment, it's a property of the reality . 

Well, at least this is what physics points, there are other theories, but they seem forced 

Edited 10 hours ago by Breakingthewall