Nothing important is happening

[Mellowmarsh]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

Everything is changing, a tree is changing every millisecond. That doesn't mean that it isn't rear, everything is a process, nothing is static

 

So does that mean, according to your logical reasoning the ultimate, unchanging reality (Brahman) is real?

Or, is there no such concept known of an ultimate, unchanging reality (Brahman) existing ? < and that idea is what is the illusion?

 

 

[Wilhelm44]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

There is a process that is happening. This process includes what we call consciousness, in which a subject is represented that interacts with the outside world and needs to self-preservation.

In this dynamic process called consciousness, the subject is represented as the center, but this doesn't imply that it's false. There is a real organism that constantly exchanges information with the outside world and interacts with other conscious subjects, and that can die, live, or reproduce based on this interaction. Where is the illusion? It's all completely real. 

You could say that the process that is happening is not permanent, it's a construction of the reality interconnected with everything else, it's not independent, but it exists. The sense of self if the recognition of being that happens is this process, and also it's absolutely real. 

 

Well yeah, in the sense that the finite and the infinite are one, everything is ultimately real. 

[Mellowmarsh]

37 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Well yeah, in the sense that the finite and the infinite are one, everything is ultimately real. 

How can one everything exist. How could one know it’s one? 
 

For one to know it exists this one would have to split into two, into knower and known. This would appear as a knowledge of this one splitting in two. And yet if there is only one and only one, then there would be nothing splitting in two, there would be nothing to divide the one into two. So that which is one must always be changeless. The changeless couldn’t change because there’d be nothing to change it. By changing nothing, nothing changes.

That why Einstein said reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. 

[Mellowmarsh]

“Real” can only be meaningful in relation to its opposite which is meaningless.

 

So ONE is neither real or unreal. Because there is no one because there’s no other than one.

There’s nothing making one real and nothing making one unreal.

Edited 11 hours ago by Mellowmarsh

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I repeat again: the self is the fact of knowing that you are, it's a process that's happening, and it's real, because there is knowledge of being.

Sincere misunderstanding due to partial or incomplete awakening experience.

If the survival strategy/identification game of the self illusion isn’t recognized clearly, I would describe it as incomplete.

[Mellowmarsh]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I repeat again

Infinity never repeats because Infinity doesn’t have a beginning nor an end.

[Breakingthewall]

37 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Sincere misunderstanding due to partial or incomplete awakening experience.

If the survival strategy/identification game of the self illusion isn’t recognized clearly, I would describe it as incomplete.

What is the self according to you?

Would you say that Ramana, Ramakrishna, Jesus, al hallaj , rumi, etc, were ignorants and you are the only enlightened? Or maybe you are misunderstanding any point? Just curious.

Again: the self is the recognition of existing. It the recognition of existing and illusion?

[Mellowmarsh]

Z E N ( zero energy nullified ) 

 

Freedom at zero point.

[Mellowmarsh]

31 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Again: the self is the recognition of existing. It the recognition of existing and illusion?

The self is a word, all words are labels and all labelled things know nothing of their existence.

 

Existence never knows it exists. The observer is the observed. 
 

The Reality is that Consciousness is a single mirror reflecting itself.

 

The mirror is empty fullness, full of emptiness, the mirror is the placeholder of its own empty reflection. 

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

 

So does that mean, according to your logical reasoning the ultimate, unchanging reality (Brahman) is real?

Or, is there no such concept known of an ultimate, unchanging reality (Brahman) existing ? < and that idea is what is the illusion?

 

 

What is the unchanging reality? We could say that is the unlimited being, then it wouldn't be something, not a dimension with some properties but just absence of limitations, absolute openess, previous condition of any form. 

Then there wont be Brahman and form, but Brahman always manifested as a form. The unlimited never changes because it's not anything but absolute depth that translates in being, that manifests as form

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

The self is a word, all words are labels and all labelled things know nothing of their existence.

 

Existence never knows it exists. The observer is the observed. 
 

The Reality is that Consciousness is a single mirror reflecting itself.

 

The mirror is empty fullness, full of emptiness, the mirror is the placeholder of its own empty reflection. 

5 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

 

 

Anyway your experience is recognition of being. Experience and recognition of being are synonyms. Consciousness is experience, and consciousness implies always perceived change. "Perceived" means self.

The fact of perceiving is the fact of knowing , and this fact is the self . You as a self are not an illusion but an action. Then we could say that this actions is the reality knowing what is. It's irrelevant that reality in not inherently someone or a self, because it becomes a self in the action of consciousness, then the reality is a self now. 

Imo a new born baby or a fish is perception of being, even there is not a model of "I" developed, the very fact of subjetive experience is knowledge of being . For example I took big dose of different psychedelics and any model disappear and what remains is meaningless experience happening, like waves and colors without anything else, and there is recognition of being . The only absence of that recognition is unconsciousness 

It's like there are 3 levels but all of them are modes of the first one

1 Fundamental level: self-awareness or subjective experience. Experience=self -presence because experience implies presence for itself

2 Structured level: mental model of "I" ( not illusory; it is a construct that occurs based on an exchange of information)

3 Narrative level: personal identity.

Edited 7 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[VeganAwake]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

What is the self according to you?

Would you say that Ramana, Ramakrishna, Jesus, al hallaj , rumi, etc, were ignorants and you are the only enlightened? Or maybe you are misunderstanding any point? Just curious.

Again: the self is the recognition of existing. It the recognition of existing and illusion?

The "self" is that Breakingthewall character that believes itself to be all of reality. That which places certain spiritual figures on a pedestal to idolize, and simultaneously disregards others that dont seem to match its parameters of belief. 

Its that character that feels threatened when it's belief system is put into question and then doubles down to secure its foundational delusions of grandiose. Circular logic is one of its most used survival strategies.

It sounds secure enough in its beliefs,  but it is actually deathly afraid of looking inwards and recognizing its own unreality. 

It's that which feels its got so much to loose because of how much spiritual knowledge it believes it has gained over the years. It believes itself to be fairly high up on the spiritual ladder and is deeply invested in identifying as that character that knows.

[Breakingthewall]

37 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

The "self" is that Breakingthewall character that believes itself to be all of reality. That which places certain spiritual figures on a pedestal to idolize, and simultaneously disregards others that dont seem to match its parameters of belief. 

Its that character that feels threatened when it's belief system is put into question and then doubles down to secure its foundational delusions of grandiose. Circular logic is one of its most used survival strategies.

It sounds secure enough in its beliefs,  but it is actually deathly afraid of looking inwards and recognizing its own unreality. 

It's that which feels its got so much to loose because of how much spiritual knowledge it believes it has gained over the years. It believes itself to be fairly high up on the spiritual ladder and is deeply invested in identifying as that character that knows.

I don't idolize anyone, I just put those examples to show you that all the spiritual Masters of all times told that the self is Brahman, etc. I have my own perspective, as you could see if you read what I posted. But it's useless, you can't communicate, just repeating same mantra and be offensive. 

Read yourself, you can't communicate with anyone, you don't see the other people, it's impossible any real interaction with you. Not only me, anyone. Of course you wont answer those examples I put of meister Eckhart, al hallaj, etc. Just silence and then any offensive message. 

Again: what is the self for you? Without offensive long message.

For me the self is the fact of perception. Perception implies the self, there is no difference between self and perception. Then the ego is the comparative character that covers the self due the human interaction. 

Can you explain anything without that passive aggressive attitude and without being condescending? 

Edited 5 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[VeganAwake]

Because I was trying to poke at the self-illusion over there.......👉, trying to get it fired up.....make it more obvious.

The self and ego you are describing is the same illusion.

The ego runs deeper and is more prevalent than you're giving it credit.

It's that which is shaping the perception there.

[Mellowmarsh]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The fact of perceiving is the fact of knowing , and this fact is the self . You as a self are not an illusion but an action

There are no actions in reality, only reactions.

The self is a synthetic mental construct.

There can be the awareness  of your thought, emotion, and sensory inputs, but the "observer" itself (pure awareness) seems to recede infinitely whenever you try to turn your attention back onto it. It is the ultimate subject, making it impossible to objectify.

Advaita Vedanta philosophy describes pure awareness as (the silent witness). It posits that awareness requires no other light to be known, and it cannot be seen by the mind because it is the very nature of the mind.

Cognitive science often explains this as a result of how our brains process information. The brain cannot run a "meta-analysis" of its own baseline processing in real-time without infinite regress, meaning it can only observe the outputs (thoughts, feelings) rather than the mechanism of observing itself. 

[Mellowmarsh]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

I don't idolize anyone, I just put those examples to show you that all the spiritual Masters of all times told that the self is Brahman, etc. I have my own perspective, as you could see if you read what I posted. But it's useless, you can't communicate, just repeating same mantra and be offensive. 

Read yourself, you can't communicate with anyone, you don't see the other people, it's impossible any real interaction with you. Not only me, anyone. Of course you wont answer those examples I put of meister Eckhart, al hallaj, etc. Just silence and then any offensive message. 

Again: what is the self for you? Without offensive long message.

For me the self is the fact of perception. Perception implies the self, there is no difference between self and perception. Then the ego is the comparative character that covers the self due the human interaction. 

Can you explain anything without that passive aggressive attitude and without being condescending? 

Nonduality is ultimately about a shift in perception rather than an intellectual fact. Only a tiny fraction of the global population likely well under 1% has a mature, functional, and lived grasp of it. 
 

The Breakingthewall character isn’t one of the 1% clearly by the way you speak to people about this.
 

Breakingthewall is a known concept, the concept known has no knowing of its own because the character is already being known. The known know nothing.
 

[Breakingthewall]

47 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Because I was trying to poke at the self-illusion over there.......👉, trying to get it fired up.....make it more obvious.

The self and ego you are describing is the same illusion.

The ego runs deeper and is more prevalent than you're giving it credit.

It's that which is shaping the perception there.

I can meditate in absolute silence, even walking on the street. I'm not thinking about that self that you mention, it's just presence, but this presence is recognition of being itself. Also I can vape 40 mg nndmt, 20 of 5meo, without any hallucinations, just a hole where the mind use to be, and it's the same: presence that means recognition of being. Also big dose of mushroom, with hallucinations, but same, zero thoughts, only forms and colors, and it's the same, presence, recognition of being.

That is the fact of being conscious, if there is consciousness there is recognition of being. And this is the self. Then a model of reality based in human interaction is created, it's not false, it's a level of organization of the self. You can erase that level and there is still presence, and presence equates to self. 

That's why al hallaj, etc, said I'm the truth, etc . They mean that they are what is. The reality. 

You should talk about those enlightened people I quote. Are them delusional according your view? Nisgardatta, Ramana, Ramakrishna, Jesus, meister Eckhart, etc. Don't be offensive as a defense, just give your opinion 

Edited 4 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Nonduality is ultimately about a shift in perception rather than an intellectual fact. Only a tiny fraction of the global population likely well under 1% has a mature, functional, and lived grasp of it. 
 

The Breakingthewall character isn’t one of the 1% clearly by the way you speak to people about this.
 

Breakingthewall is a known concept, the concept known has no knowing of its own because the character is already being known. The known know nothing.
 

That's great that you read non duality and now you think that you are one of those choosen. Congratulations for that. 

[Mellowmarsh]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You can erase that level and there is still presence, and presence equates to self. 

 Presence is only known, in this conception, known but never seen.

The conceived known knows nothing, sees nothing. 

[Mellowmarsh]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's great that you read non duality and now you think that you are one of those choosen. Congratulations for that. 

It’s okay, you’re not alone in not-knowing.