The obstacle for real meditation

[Mellowmarsh]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

this is to talk about meditation and spirituality. 

Why does the person who thinks he is limited meditate, for what reason?

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Why does the person who thinks he is limited meditate, for what reason?

Because they perceive that life, reality, can't be this limited frame. Your intuition tells you that you are prisoner, but you don't know exactly how . Then you start reading spirituality, but it's contradictory, narcissistic and very bad explained. Most of authors are seducers, who's successful as a "guru" is who seduces the seekers.

Then you think: if I stop my thoughts I will be free, and you start meditation as a violent effort to control your mind. A very stressful and annoying exercise.

But if you are tenacious, little by little you start to perceive the processes that are happening in you, the process that you are, the depth of your movement, then it becomes a passion, you spend hours and hours in it, doing all the psychedelics that exist again and again, breaking your mind in all it's possible dimensions, until you start to know yourself 

Then you perceive that if you break the last frontier you will find the absolute 

Edited Wednesday at 06:34 PM by Breakingthewall

[Mellowmarsh]

1 minute ago, No1Here2c said:

Observation to Observe Observation?

Why would a limited mental state choose to observe observation?

[Mellowmarsh]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Because they perceive that life, reality, can't be this limited frame. Your intuition tells you that you are prisoner, but you don't know exactly how . Then you start reading spirituality, but it's contradictory, narcissistic and very bad explained. Most of authors are seducers, who's successful as a "guru" is who seduces the seekers. Then you think: if I stop my thoughts I will be free, and you start meditation as a violent effort to control your mind. A very stressful and annoying exercise. But if you are tenacious, little by little you start to perceive the processes that are happening in you, the depth of your movement, then it becomes a passion, you spend hours and hours in it, doing all the psychedelics that exist again and again, breaking your mind in all it's possible dimensions, until you start to know yourself 

Okay, thanks for that summary. 

Did the meditator forget who it is, and so desired to know itself using meditation as the starting point at which real knowing reveals itself ?

[Mellowmarsh]

5 minutes ago, No1Here2c said:

For the sake of Understanding?

Understanding what, exactly?

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, No1Here2c said:

Anyone knows that metaphor, maybe you think it's very brilliant. Better explain the process 

[caspex]

I love it. What an insight. I tried this and can see how I am constantly trying to define my walls so I can keep them erect. Protecting myself from change. Survival at it's finest.

It's so scary to drop those walls but it's so freeing. The change is rapid but the whole point is not to care who you become.
We have been beaten so senseless by this world into erecting these walls that we forget we put them in the first place.

This is why my ego keeps coming back after ego deaths.

 

 

Each action we do, each word we speak, it's all so we can keep defining ourselves.

Edited Wednesday at 06:47 PM by caspex

[Mellowmarsh]

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

until you start to know yourself 

Once you have recognised become aware of knowing yourself. What happens to all those authors you previously mentioned? 

[Mellowmarsh]

6 minutes ago, No1Here2c said:

It would seem the observer(the meditator) may lose itself amidst the chaos of form & identification.

Maybe the source intended to lose itself just for the fun of finding itself?

[Mellowmarsh]

11 minutes ago, caspex said:

Each action we do, each word we speak, it's all so we can keep defining ourselves.

There was no other way to define ourself. It couldn’t have been any other way.

 

[Breakingthewall]

15 minutes ago, No1Here2c said:

The process is in the unfoldment.

23 minutes ago, No1Here2c said:

Ok, you are very brilliant, so special. Everyone already know it. Then rest a bit and go to another thread 

[Breakingthewall]

17 minutes ago, caspex said:

I love it. What an insight. I tried this and can see how I am constantly trying to define my walls so I can keep them erect. Protecting myself from change. Survival at it's finest.

It's so scary to drop those walls but it's so freeing. The change is rapid but the whole point is not to care who you become.
We have been beaten so senseless by this world into erecting these walls that we forget we put them in the first place.

This is why my ego keeps coming back after ego deaths.

 

 

Each action we do, each word we speak, it's all so we can keep defining ourselves.

The human nature makes those walls inevitable. Survival is a must, it's atavistic, not a silly mistake of the ego. Go through those walls requires facing your deepest fears and go through them. It's an interesting exercise, over all because the other option is madness. If we were in a society with a purpose, then we could make that purpose our guide and work hard for the group, but we are in the society of the no sense, no purpose, just hedonism, comparison, madness. Then there is no choice 

[Mellowmarsh]

1 minute ago, No1Here2c said:

Its amazing when the pellet passes through & the bubble reforms its shape!

Yes, it’s amazing. 
 

There’s nowhere or no thing at which to point their guns at. 

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, No1Here2c said:

Its amazing when the pellet passes through & the bubble retains its shape!

Look clown , seems that there are not moderators in this forum, just I'm asking you to go out of this thread. I think you are a disgusting clown and would be nice if you disappear from here with your annoying narcissism. Could you be so kind? Im asking you very politely, don't you think so? Then start another thread to show how smart you are. 

[Mellowmarsh]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The human nature makes those walls inevitable.

Nature being artificial , maybe they don’t know they are making those walls? 

[Grateful Dead]

On 5.5.2026 at 9:26 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Ok, but the ego is not only your human identity, thoughts, but the primal fear to dissolution that is programmed in the human psyche. The identity is it's manifestation 

I agree, well said!

On 5.5.2026 at 9:26 PM, Breakingthewall said:

a shift where the void opens and reveals itself as the unlimited that is. This is the movement that I'm talking about and that is so difficult to do for me. I think it's something that happens when your psychological structure is aligned in some way. If it happens now, and you are open to the unlimited for example during one week, but then in some moment it's closed again, very fast you will forget that reality and you will start to think that was a fantasy to scape of the obvious nihilist void that reality is.

Yes, that is exactly the process I am going through as well. I view it this way: the phases of openness are brief glimpses of freedom, and when things close up again, we are shown exactly where the ego is still trying to hold on, so we know where the work is. 

To me, the mind calling those experiences a fantasy is just another layer of the barrier. The more I am willing to lean into the closed phases and the doubt, the less they bother me. At a certain point, it all becomes transparent, even the forgetting, and I realize that what is absolute never actually left. 

During formal meditation, I find it relatively easy to rest in this openness. The real challenge for me lies in integrating this into everyday life, in remaining transparent amidst the movements of life. Like to not simply ignore the closedness and go about my usual activities, but rather to pause for a moment to recognize the resistance precisely at the instant it arises. 

[Breakingthewall]

On 7/5/2026 at 2:42 PM, Grateful Dead said:

and when things close up again, we are shown exactly where the ego is still trying to hold on, so we know where the work is. 

Exactly, it's a process of alignment, cleaning. It's more or less automatic, when you really start to move in the direction of the openess, little by little, old mental habits get broken,a real change occurs.

On 7/5/2026 at 2:42 PM, Grateful Dead said:

During formal meditation, I find it relatively easy to rest in this openness

For me there is always some degree of closeness in day by day. As you said, serious meditation is necessary to break through, even for a few moments, the shell of the ego, which then returns. Sometimes it happens spontaneously, but usually there is closeness. 

The interesting thing is that you begin to perceive the mechanisms that close us off, and if you're even slightly perceptive, you'll see that these mechanisms are very deep and inherent to human beings. For example, the need for solid human bonds is paramount being a human. We could deny this fact calling the relationships "maya", but this doesn't going to make that need to disappear. 

we live in a society where relationships are extremely superficial, and this is deeply destabilizing. Spirituality is often used as a band-aid or an escape, just like success in any field. When you can't trust anyone, not even yourself, you need to build a network of stories, desires, and fears that keeps you grounded; otherwise, your psyche will collapse. Peering into the abyss of total nihilism, as you mentioned before, isn't something many people want to do. It's absolutely a must in you want to open yourself to the unlimited. You cant immerse yourself in the total ocean introducing only a toe, you have to jump without net. 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Breakingthewall