Depersonalisation ≠ Enlightenment

[Hyperion]

As a spiritual seeker, you may have heard many teachers say that spiritual awakening is the end of the personal self. While such claims have undeniable relative value/validity and can serve as effective pointers towards the realization of Absolute Truth (aka. spiritual awakening), it is important to keep in mind that all such statements regarding the "true nature of reality" (and the recognition thereof) can by definition only ever be relatively true, but never absolutely true.

To appreciate why this is the case, it is necessary to understand what the word "Absolute" refers to:

The Absolute is the infinite field of reality which includes and gives rise to all possible qualities; every quality that there is (and could be) is a relative aspect of that which is Absolute, meaning that anything that you can name, think of and experience is it - and also, it's not it. 

As outlined in my little "theory" above, consciousness must constantly oscillate between contrasting qualitative states, for without such oscillation the experience of reality would not be possible. (An experience = a relative quality or set of qualities that "stands out" from the infinite sum total of all qualities and thereby comes into existence). This is why all polarities such as "self/no-self", "personal/impersonal", "limited/unlimited" etc. essentially represent two (relative) sides of the same (absolute) coin, since they can only exist and be experienced in relation and contrast to each other.

Where there is no Yin, there can be no Yang... and vice versa.

However, once (your) consciousness enters a high-frequency meta-state where all seeming opposites are recognized as equally valid facets and expressions of the same infinite Reality, there is now a sort of simultaneous meta-experience of self and no-self, personal and impersonal, limited and unlimited and all other complementary opposite aspects of the Absolute. So in one sense, all of these relative aspects/perspectives are still "online" and fully available to you; and in another sense, they simply cease to have any meaningful significance since all conceptual definitions are now seen to be nothing but mere arbitrary labels. When the pendulum of consciousness swings so fast that contrasting qualities are being experienced simultaneously (as it were), they essentially merge together and neutralize each other... and what remains is the ineffable Divine that contains and transcends absolutely everything and is impossible to speak of.

So while it is true that upon awakening there is no more solid sense of self, there is also no solid sense of no-self once you have truly passed through the proverbial gateless gate. Seemingly conflicting statements such as  "I exist as a person" and "I don't exist as a person" are now just as equally meaningful/meaningless to you as all other verbal utterances (aka. relative perspectives); you may still emphasize one aspect over the other in order to make a spiritual, philosophical or ethical point(er), but there will be no more dogged attachment to either side of the all-encompassing Coin. Depersonalisation on the other hand signifies being (often involuntarily) attached to and stuck in a specific relative perspective; it means that there has been a shift from personhood to non-personhood, and now the latter perspective is being mistaken for absolute truth and thereby made into an (egoic) identity. (If it sounds strange and unbelievable to you that it should be possible to construct an identity that is based on the tenet of "I don't exist", then you really don't know just how enduring, clever and creative the egoic mind is... trust me, it can make an identity out of ANYTHING, lol).

To be clear: For some people, temporary depersonalization may in fact be a necessary phase or stage of their awakening journey; it may just be the appropriate antidote that will over time cure them from their attachment to "being someone", so none of this is meant to be an indictment that points out some kind of shortcoming or character flaw on your or someone else's part. All I am saying is that it is beneficial to see things for what they are(n't) and that there is no need to overly indulge in and willfully prolong such transitory phases. After all, the point of awakening is not to trade in one attachment-based identity for another, but rather to transcend all identity and fully thrust yourself into the great unknown which is quite literally beyond description.

But then again, in case you prefer to foster your depersonalisation and milk it to the very last drop, then by all means... depersonalize away. 

[Willy Phallicus]

When I get beyond ego there is no doubt whatsoever about who and what I am and what I am doing and why.  There's even still a hint of human identity but I recognize it for what it is.  

I think no self refers more to the limited self or as a way of trying to describe an ineffable experience.  Otherwise there is a definite I Am going on there.

[VeganAwake]

Who is writing this topic?

What makes up the Hyperion character?

Like literally, what does it consist of?

Can it be located?

I'm not talking about the physical body of Hyperion, I'm asking about the character. I'm asking about the thinker of thoughts.

Who or what wants to become enlightened? What is that?

 

[Opulence]

Nothing is truly comparable to enlightenment. 

[Hyperion]

6 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Who is writing this topic?

Your mom, at least according to what she told me last night in private.

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

😘

[MutedMiles]

2 hours ago, Hyperion said:

Your mom, at least according to what she told me last night in private.

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

😘

Enlightenment at work.

[VeganAwake]

19 hours ago, Hyperion said:

Your mom, at least according to what she told me last night in private.

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

😘

🤦‍♂️ 

[Breakingthewall]

On 9/4/2026 at 8:27 PM, Hyperion said:

So while it is true that upon awakening there is no more solid sense of self, there is also no solid sense of no-self once you have truly passed through the proverbial gateless gate. Seemingly conflicting statements such as  "I exist as a person" and "I don't exist as a person" are now just as equally meaningful/meaningless

Those are convoluted ideas from mystics that, given their era, lacked scientific foundation.

From a current perspective, things are much simpler: I am a relative expression of reality and, at the same time, total reality itself. My form is real as a relative form, and my total essence is the essence of everything.

The total always manifests as relative because manifestation and relative are synonymous. I can shift between perceiving myself as limitless, as a totality, or as limited, as a form.

Form is absolutely coherent with the totality, and perceiving it in all its perfection is as "divine" as opening yourself to the totality.

[Breakingthewall]

On 10/4/2026 at 3:24 AM, VeganAwake said:

Who is writing this topic?

What makes up the Hyperion character?

Like literally, what does it consist of?

Can it be located?

I'm not talking about the physical body of Hyperion, I'm asking about the character. I'm asking about the thinker of thoughts.

Who or what wants to become enlightened? What is that?

 

It's in the brain, as everyone knows. It can be located by a brain scanner, it's quite simple. Read this to understand what the self is and maybe you could abandon that obscurantist neo advaita ideas invented by some people 

 

What we call the “self” is not a fixed entity or an independent essence. It is a dynamic construction of the brain, a model that emerges from the interaction of multiple neural systems whose primary function is to ensure survival, coherence, and social integration.

At its core, the brain is a prediction machine. It continuously builds models of the world, and of the organism itself, in order to guide action. The “self” is one of those models: a functional representation that organizes perception, memory, and behavior around the idea of “me.”

A key component of the self is the narrative layer, largely associated with the Default Mode Network (DMN), including regions such as the medial prefrontal cortex and posterior cingulate cortex.
This system constructs personal stories (“I am this kind of person”)
links past experiences with future expectations
maintains continuity over time
It creates the sense of a stable identity, even though that identity is constantly updated and reconstructed.

Also it is the Emotional Core (Limbic System)
The limbic system, especially structures like the amygdala, adds emotional weight to the self.
It tags experiences as threatening or safe, links identity to feelings such as shame, pride, fear, or belonging. This is why beliefs about the self are not neutral. They are charged with emotion, and therefore strongly defended. A threat to identity is experienced as a threat to survival.

Also it is the Body-Based Self (Proprioception and Interoception)
The sense of being “someone” is also grounded in the body.
Proprioception gives awareness of body position and movement
Interoception provides internal signals (heartbeat, breathing, tension)
Together, they create a felt sense of presence, the immediate experience of “I am here.”
This layer is pre-conceptual and continuous, forming the foundation upon which more abstract aspects of the self are built.

Also memory and Coherence (Hippocampus)
Memory systems integrate experiences into a coherent timeline.
events are stored and linked
patterns are extracted
identity becomes a story over time
Without memory, the continuity of the self collapses. The brain constantly reconstructs identity by selecting and organizing past experiences into a consistent narrative.

And no less important, tribal and Social Identity.
Humans are deeply social organisms. A large part of the self is shaped by tribal belonging.
The brain encodes group membership (“us vs. them”), social status,
shared values and narratives.
This creates a powerful mechanism:
identity is stabilized through alignment with a group
As a result beliefs are reinforced social and deviations from the group are felt as threats. individuals may distort reality to preserve belonging. 
This is why identity is often defended collectively, not just individually.

And the most delusional, the defense of the Self, so common in spirituality.
Once established, the self-model is actively protected. The brain filters information that contradicts identity
reinterprets events to maintain coherence, externalizes blame when necessary. This is not a conscious strategy but an automatic process:
the system prioritizes stability over truth. Changing the self-model requires destabilizing these mechanisms, which can trigger anxiety, confusion, and loss of orientation.

Ultimately, the self is not a thing but a process, a constantly updated model
shaped by memory, emotion, body, and social context, maintained through ongoing neural activity
It feels solid because it is continuously reconstructed. But look, you could say the same about the body .

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Elliott]

50 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's in the brain, as everyone knows. It can be located by a brain scanner, it's quite simple. Read this to understand what the self is and maybe you could abandon that obscurantist neo advaita ideas invented by some people 

 

No it isn't 

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-consciousness-science-faces-its-hardest-problem-yet/

Why consciousness is the hardest problem in science

Jan 20, 2026 — These questions may have objective answers, but because they are about private, subjective experiences that can’t be directly measured, they exist at the very boundaries of what the scientific method can reveal.

 

 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-thursday-edition-1.3679117/scientists-research-man-missing-90-of-his-brain-who-leads-a-normal-life-1.3679125

Scientists research man missing 90% of his brain who leads a normal life

Jul 14, 2016 — The condition is known as hydrocephalus. It is so stunning a case of the brain's ability to adapt

Edited 8 hours ago by Elliott

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

Why consciousness is the hardest problem in science

Consciousness is simply the reality appearing in a dual structure that register time and differentiate the self and the other. Why it's a problem? It's very obvious 

[Willy Phallicus]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

Why consciousness is the hardest problem in science

Cuz they're doing it all wrong.

[Breakingthewall]

51 minutes ago, Willy Phallicus said:

Cuz they're doing it all wrong.

True, poor scientist, so dumb formulating theories like relativity or quantum physics. Fortunately here we are, the geniuses of actualized that we know we are god imagining the reality because it's bored. 

[Willy Phallicus]

46 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

so dumb formulating theories like relativity or quantum physics.

Formulating the theory is one thing.  Understanding the implications is another.  In case you haven't noticed all these wonderful theories have done exactly jack squat in raising man up from his petty and ignorant vulgarity.  

Other than that, theories are shit belief systems.  If all you got is belief then youre not thinking and seeking and creating for yourself.  There's a big difference between faith and gnosis - faith is largely worthless and I sure as hell don't rest on it.

46 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

we know we are god imagining the reality because it's bored. 

Infinite existence is both a blessing and a curse but maybe its the fun kind of curse to be cursed by.  It's up to you really.

Edited 4 hours ago by Willy Phallicus

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Consciousness is simply the reality appearing in a dual structure that register time and differentiate the self and the other. 

Why are you changing the story now, first you said brain scans, have you ever even seen consciousness on a brain scan, what does it look like?

[Breakingthewall]

17 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Why are you changing the story now, first you said brain scans, have you ever even seen consciousness on a brain scan, what does it look like?

I didn't change the story. A brain scanner will show you the activity of the brain. That activity is the structure that the reality is talking in a given moment, in a given dimension.

What we call human consciousness is the reality taking a determinate structure, and we can see that structure in a brain. A brain in a quantum universe of unimaginable complexity and synchronicity that is happening in a given moment. It's made of relationship, same than any other manifestation.

[Elliott]

What are you two going to do with your million dollars from your Nobel Peace Prize in consciousness? Can't wait to see your paper.

[Elliott]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

I didn't change the story. A brain scanner will show you the activity of the brain. That activity is the structure that the reality is talking in a given moment, in a given dimension.

What we call human consciousness is the reality taking a determinate structure, and we can see that structure in a brain. A brain in a quantum universe of unimaginable complexity and synchronicity that is happening in a given moment. It's made of relationship, same than any other manifestation.

This is just word salad, you're saying nothing.

[Breakingthewall]

22 minutes ago, Willy Phallicus said:

  In case you haven't noticed all these wonderful theories have done exactly jack squat in raising man up from his petty and ignorant vulgarity.  

Well, you have a phone in your hands instead a stone, it's not small difference 

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Elliott said:

This is just word salad, you're saying nothing.

No no, it's that you didn't understood 

Well, let's try a simpler language:

man, it's pure consciousness, pure love, and it's so so wonderful. You are god man, and those scientist are dumb and we are elite. 

Did you get it? Maybe resonates more. The point is touching the fiber of each person.