Why would it be impossible for God to create other minds?

[Lazarus93]

35 minutes ago, enchanted said:

When they bisect the hemispheres in the mind (for medical reasons) you get two minds from one. The concept of "other minds" could work like that too

To be very precise, in split brain you don't get two minds from one, you get two distinct personalities dissociated from each other, experienced by the same Mind. 

Edited Tuesday at 09:59 PM by Lazarus93

[Willy Phallicus]

Solipsists live in the twilight zone where they're the only sane ones and everyone is calling them crazy.

[GodisOne]

5 hours ago, Lazarus93 said:

The point is that "I" and "You" are the same being/mind. You are thinking I am saying I as the ego am the only mind exists. However, the ego is not a mind. In fact, even if you are a materialist, the ego is not even the brain. The ego is a series of thoughts, perceptions, and feelings that occur in Mind which falsely creates it's own identity.

You have this metaphysical assumption that there are 'multiple' minds and I am saying my individual mind is the only one that exists. Notice that such a thing has never been empirically proven (remember, I am talking about Mind, not the experience of a brain or an ego that the Mind dreams up). You will never be able to validate there being multiple minds through science or direct experience.

Science has not and cannot ever prove there are multiple minds (again, I am not talking about multiple brains), and your direct experience tells you that everything occurs within your Mind. The mind I am talking about is God's Infinite Mind which you and I both are, which is located nowhere and everywhere at once. It is where all experience happens.

 

Yeah you are presenting solipsism, but the problem is there is no one mind having one experience. There are many minds, each with its separate experience. You and I cannot be the Infinite Mind because we are not "located nowhere and everywhere" and also we are separate. Each one of us has a different experience. You can say we are configurations or parts of the Infinite Mind, but surely we are not the Infinite Mind, by definition. 

And in quantum mechanics, there is a consistent theory that describes how many minds emerged from One Mind or Infinite Mind. Since you said "Science has not and cannot ever prove there are multiple minds". 

There is the Hugh Everett's Many Minds interpretation, that states when a quantum event happens, minds branch off to experience their possible outcome. One mind becomes many minds, each unaware of the others, each experiencing a different outcome — but all equally real.

(And there was a missing piece: why doesn't the observer see a superposition of all these outcomes simultaneously when the branching happens? Decoherence theory answers this by showing that when a quantum system interacts with its environment — air molecules, photons, your brain — the superposition effectively stops being coherent. The different possibilities stop interfering with each other and behave like separate, independent classical outcomes.)

Anyways, I just brought this up as a valid theory in quantum mechanics that states multiple minds exist. 

So these minds exist and they all emerged from One Mind (which you can call God--the first Mind, Originator of all other minds). If you were to relate this to nonduality, you would say that the Self is the wavefunction which is whole and undivided.

There's also another interpretation (Bohm's implicate order) that states many observers are locally unfolded expressions of the same undivided consciousness, appearing at different space and timepoints. So here you have multiple minds again.

 

 

[Lazarus93]

6 hours ago, GodisOne said:

And in quantum mechanics, there is a consistent theory that describes how many minds emerged from One Mind or Infinite Mind. Since you said "Science has not and cannot ever prove there are multiple minds". 

There is the Hugh Everett's Many Minds interpretation, that states when a quantum event happens, minds branch off to experience their possible outcome. One mind becomes many minds, each unaware of the others, each experiencing a different outcome — but all equally real.

(And there was a missing piece: why doesn't the observer see a superposition of all these outcomes simultaneously when the branching happens? Decoherence theory answers this by showing that when a quantum system interacts with its environment — air molecules, photons, your brain — the superposition effectively stops being coherent. The different possibilities stop interfering with each other and behave like separate, independent classical outcomes.)

Anyways, I just brought this up as a valid theory in quantum mechanics that states multiple minds exist. 

So these minds exist and they all emerged from One Mind (which you can call God--the first Mind, Originator of all other minds). If you were to relate this to nonduality, you would say that the Self is the wavefunction which is whole and undivided.

There's also another interpretation (Bohm's implicate order) that states many observers are locally unfolded expressions of the same undivided consciousness, appearing at different space and timepoints. So here you have multiple minds again.

 

 

That is not a proof for multiple minds.

Many Minds and Bohm's implicate order are interpretations, not actual experimental results. No experiment has ever detected a branching mind. No experiment has ever measured the implicate order directly. These are philosophical stories physicists tell to make the mathematics feel coherent. They are metaphysics dressed in the language of physics.

And here is the deeper problem. Every quantum experiment assumes an observer from the outset. The entire formalism of quantum mechanics: the measurement problem, wave function collapse, decoherence, is structured around the distinction between the observed system and the observer. Obviously this is not the case for consciousness/mind, which is nondual when all distinctions collapse.

These theories don't say anything about the nature of if there is one mind or multiple minds, because they assume duality as a given. But if anything, Bohm's implicate order literally states that there is one Mind: "many observers are locally unfolded expressions of the same undivided consciousness, appearing at different space and timepoints." Undivided consciousness = One Mind.

Quote

Yeah you are presenting solipsism, but the problem is there is no one mind having one experience. There are many minds, each with its separate experience. You and I cannot be the Infinite Mind because we are not "located nowhere and everywhere" and also we are separate. Each one of us has a different experience. You can say we are configurations or parts of the Infinite Mind, but surely we are not the Infinite Mind, by definition. 

There is 0 proof anywhere in reality of there being multiple minds. You cannot posit multiple minds without any proof. Your direct experience tells you there is only your mind. I am not sure why you think you as mind are not located everywhere and nowhere. Is that not literally what your direct experience tells you? If not, I would say you can Awaken further to what your true nature is.

The fact that you think that there is a real distinction between "You" and "I" tells me that you are viewing the ego as a real thing that divides reality rather than a construction in your infinite mind. Your experience is absolute. Nothing can exist outside your experience, by definition, because you are experience. Really grasp the implications of what is being said here when I say your experience is absolute. When I say "Your experience" I mean your experience as God. There IS no ego that is experiencing. The ego is quite literally an imaginary construct.

"Each one of us has a different experience" is not true at all. There is also 0 empirical proof of this. Unless you mean 'each one of us' as egos/personalities, but then you are not getting what 'Mind' refers to. Mind = Reality. Everything you experience, every thought, your human body, the distinction between 'Me' and You,' and egos/personalities arise in mind. 

With all due respect, there are many holes in your metaphysics. You have not given any proof at all to support your claim that multiple minds exist. 

Edited yesterday at 07:09 AM by Lazarus93

[GodisOne]

11 hours ago, Lazarus93 said:

That is not a proof for multiple minds.

Many Minds and Bohm's implicate order are interpretations, not actual experimental results. No experiment has ever detected a branching mind. No experiment has ever measured the implicate order directly. These are philosophical stories physicists tell to make the mathematics feel coherent. They are metaphysics dressed in the language of physics.

And here is the deeper problem. Every quantum experiment assumes an observer from the outset. The entire formalism of quantum mechanics: the measurement problem, wave function collapse, decoherence, is structured around the distinction between the observed system and the observer. Obviously this is not the case for consciousness/mind, which is nondual when all distinctions collapse.

These theories don't say anything about the nature of if there is one mind or multiple minds, because they assume duality as a given. But if anything, Bohm's implicate order literally states that there is one Mind: "many observers are locally unfolded expressions of the same undivided consciousness, appearing at different space and timepoints." Undivided consciousness = One Mind.

There is 0 proof anywhere in reality of there being multiple minds. You cannot posit multiple minds without any proof. Your direct experience tells you there is only your mind. I am not sure why you think you as mind are not located everywhere and nowhere. Is that not literally what your direct experience tells you? If not, I would say you can Awaken further to what your true nature is.

The fact that you think that there is a real distinction between "You" and "I" tells me that you are viewing the ego as a real thing that divides reality rather than a construction in your infinite mind. Your experience is absolute. Nothing can exist outside your experience, by definition, because you are experience. Really grasp the implications of what is being said here when I say your experience is absolute. When I say "Your experience" I mean your experience as God. There IS no ego that is experiencing. The ego is quite literally an imaginary construct.

"Each one of us has a different experience" is not true at all. There is also 0 empirical proof of this. Unless you mean 'each one of us' as egos/personalities, but then you are not getting what 'Mind' refers to. Mind = Reality. Everything you experience, every thought, your human body, the distinction between 'Me' and You,' and egos/personalities arise in mind. 

With all due respect, there are many holes in your metaphysics. You have not given any proof at all to support your claim that multiple minds exist. 

"is structured around the distinction between the observed system and the observer. "
Actually it's structured around the Interaction between the observed system and the observer. That is what those theories you mentioned (e.g measurement problem) emphasize. And this interaction only goes o show that they are not separate--one affects the other.

"The fact that you think that there is a real distinction between "You" and "I" tells me that you are viewing the ego as a real thing that divides reality rather than a construction in your infinite mind." 
On the contrary, I see it as an illusory agent that creates the sense of separation. I even told you "You can say we are configurations or parts of the Infinite Mind, but surely we are not the Infinite Mind, by definition." So I do see the ego/the separate observor as "a construction in your infinite mind"; it's just I wouldn't say "your" Infinite Mind, because Infinite Mind belongs to no one.

"Your experience is absolute."
This is once again saying that only my experience is fundamental (solipsism). This goes into direct contradiction with me saying "no, I am not the only mind that exists; there are other minds." So who is right? You can't falsify my claim and I can't falsify yours. After all, what is your problem with multiple minds all being configurations of the Infinite? Why do you assert that there is only your mind that exists? And by asserting that, you negate the fact that only my mind exists. If so, then it's internally inconsistent. But so far you've only been saying my mind exists, so that is why I am not noting any inconsistency. But the moment you will assert it is only your mind that exists, or if you go to someone else and tell them only your mind exists, then you are being inconsistent and self-contradicting.

Edited 15 hours ago by GodisOne