Why Marxism failed according to Bertrand Russell

[enchanted]

 

[Elliott]

I think it's obvious even marxists don't believe in marxism, for one simple reason; they don't start a Marxist community and grow it. Instead, Marxists want to hijack a capitalist community. Look at their excuses with USSR; " The u.s. isolated them", so, they needed capitalism to survive? USSR was largest empire in history, is there a minimum amount of land area they need that's larger than Siberia? They're binary-thinking idiots, authoritarian cultists.

Edited 13 hours ago by Elliott

[BlueOak]

28 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I think it's obvious even marxists don't believe in marxism, for one simple reason; they don't start a Marxist community and grow it. 

United States

Twin Oaks Community – Virginia
East Wind Community – Missouri
The Farm – Tennessee
Acorn Community – Virginia
Dancing Rabbit Ecovillage – Missouri
Amana Colonies – Iowa

Israel

Degania – Israel
Ein Gev – Israel
Kibbutz Lotan – Israel
Kibbutz Ein Harod – Israel

Spain

Marinaleda – Andalusia
Mondragon Corporation – Basque Country

Denmark
Christiania – Copenhagen

France / Switzerland / Austria

Longo Maï – Multiple countries

Germany

Kommune Niederkaufungen – Hesse

United Kingdom

Findhorn Foundation – Scotland

Italy

Damanhur – Piedmont

Japan

Yamagishi Movement – Multiple locations

Canada

Windward Community – British Columbia

Netherlands

Vrije Gemeente – Netherlands

 

36 minutes ago, Elliott said:

 They're idiots, authoritarian cultists.

Always a pleasure.

[BlueOak]

1 hour ago, enchanted said:

 

Fair point. People do get hung up on hatred and rebellion.
This is also true of capitalists against homeless people or those in poverty, however. So its not a direct correlation as to why socialism has not succeeded in the same way capitalism has, otherwise capitalism too would have failed. Or we may argue it has to those in the lower classes or rungs of society.

Capitalism simply outcompeted it, because by design it thrives on competition.

[Elliott]

6 hours ago, BlueOak said:

United States

Twin Oaks Community – Virginia
East Wind Community – Missouri
The Farm – Tennessee
Acorn Community – Virginia
Dancing Rabbit Ecovillage – Missouri
Amana Colonies – Iowa

Israel

Degania – Israel
Ein Gev – Israel
Kibbutz Lotan – Israel
Kibbutz Ein Harod – Israel

Spain

Marinaleda – Andalusia
Mondragon Corporation – Basque Country

Denmark
Christiania – Copenhagen

France / Switzerland / Austria

Longo Maï – Multiple countries

Germany

Kommune Niederkaufungen – Hesse

United Kingdom

Findhorn Foundation – Scotland

Italy

Damanhur – Piedmont

Japan

Yamagishi Movement – Multiple locations

Canada

Windward Community – British Columbia

Netherlands

Vrije Gemeente – Netherlands

 

Always a pleasure.

 

6 hours ago, Elliott said:

I think it's obvious even marxists don't believe in marxism, for one simple reason; they don't start a Marxist community and grow it. 

Why don't you join one then, instead of trying to force all of us to convert?

Grow marxism from grassroots, rather than from pirating, is what I was saying.

Go be a successful community, everyone will flock to it and convert. Be a shining light on the hill! You guys seem to be ensnared in a psyop, to me. The socialist arguments don't hold up to any bit of scrutiny, it's all feelings. I myself am an egalitarian, everyone deserves everything equally, but this binary argument of socialism vs. Corporatism is very childish.

Edited 6 hours ago by Elliott

[Wilhelm44]

@BlueOak

The Findhorn foundation is a spiritual community, it's not Marxist.

[BlueOak]

1 hour ago, Wilhelm44 said:

@BlueOak

The Findhorn foundation is a spiritual community, it's not Marxist.

Its undisputably a socialist, cooperative community. Certainly spiritual also.

If you want specifically Marxism as an ideology, it will be more limited. Just as there are many branches of capitalism, but these tend to just be grouped under one greater whole.

However these were just the top 20 known ones in a google search, I could just pull the next twenty, the point would remain.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by BlueOak

[BlueOak]

6 hours ago, Elliott said:

 

Why don't you join one then, instead of trying to force all of us to convert?

Grow marxism from grassroots, rather than from pirating, is what I was saying.

Go be a successful community, everyone will flock to it and convert. Be a shining light on the hill! You guys seem to be ensnared in a psyop, to me. The socialist arguments don't hold up to any bit of scrutiny, it's all feelings. I myself am an egalitarian, everyone deserves everything equally, but this binary argument of socialism vs. Corporatism is very childish.

Reasonable request on its face, however 95% of people in this forum do the same, they project their values onto you and ask you to accept them. You included. Your doing it now by saying: 

Drop your belief system and values, or go live in your own community, which is equally, in your own words childish. In my words, simplistic.
No thank you, i'll continue to live where I live, and keep the values I have. You'll just have to deal with people who have opposing values and belief systems from yourself.

 

6 hours ago, Elliott said:

The socialist arguments don't hold up to any bit of scrutiny, it's all feelings. 

Feel free to debate any of them with me.  And i'll do facts and numbers all day.
 

6 hours ago, Elliott said:

but this binary argument of socialism vs. Corporatism is very childish.

Then why do you engage in similar binary reasoning?

I can tell you why I do, because they are polar opposites, a bit like liberalism and authoritarianism, and these poles balance society out collectively. They also allow complex ideas to be communicated in short formats. However, I treat the poles as multiple rather than binary and prefer 4 of them for clarity's sake. 

The fact you've used psyop and cult to describe a differing belief system and set of values shows a great deal of intolerance and inflexibility in your own approach to life.

Edited 5 hours ago by BlueOak

[Elliott]

20 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

Reasonable request on its face, however 95% of people in this forum do the same, they project their values onto you and ask you to accept them. You included. Your doing it now by saying: 

Drop your belief system and values, or go live in your own community, which is equally, in your own words childish. In my words, simplistic.
No thank you, i'll continue to live where I live, and keep the values I have. You'll just have to deal with people who have opposing values and belief systems from yourself.

 

I'm not saying to drop your belief system, I'm trying to show you why I think it's silly. Moving to those communities makes sense to me if you truly believe in it, supporting capitalism living here being the antithesis.

 

Quote

 

Feel free to debate any of them with me.  And i'll do facts and numbers all day.
 

Then why do you engage in similar binary reasoning?

I can tell you why I do, because they are polar opposites, a bit like liberalism and authoritarianism, and these poles balance society out collectively. They also allow complex ideas to be communicated in short formats. However, I treat the poles as multiple rather than binary and prefer 4 of them for clarity's sake. 

 

Corporatism and socialism are brothers, not opposites. Both authoritarian. Opposites in reckless theory, only. Under capitalism, the workers have the ability, right now, stop buying from and working for corporations. I don't support corporatism, tax corporations and billionaires out of existence. I'm not a liberterian, I find that more foolish than socialism.

Quote

The fact you've used psyop and cult to describe a differing belief system and set of values shows a great deal of intolerance and inflexibility in your own approach to life.

I'd be interested to hear more on this, I see no validity in this view. I've ran into what I consider dumb dead ends every path of socialism I've explored. I like the community level, I consider that egalitarian, while 'socialism' being more similar to a broad government, hence the top-down rather than bottom-up approach by socialists "Revolu-tion!" vs, "let's start a co-op".

Edited 5 hours ago by Elliott