The Democratic Leadership is Still Playing Not to Lose

[Elliott]

If I take a girl to a McDonald's, I MYSELF failed, not Barney's 5 star bistro.

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Elliott said:

This is what we're arguing. The voters FAILED.

To do what? They voted for who they wanted and got it.

[Elliott]

Just now, Raze said:

To do what? They voted for who they wanted and got it.

To think, AT ALL. To take their date to Martinellis Steakhouse vs McDonalds. Do you think Democrats didn't advertise and campaign, are you on drugs?

[Raze]

Just now, Elliott said:

To think, AT ALL. To take their date to Martinellis Steakhouse vs McDonalds. Do you think Democrats didn't advertise and campaign, are you on drugs?

No, they just did so in an incompetent fashion. Same with many aspects of their governance, hence turning voters against them. Like what republicans are doing now. 

[Elliott]

1 minute ago, Raze said:

No, they just did so in an incompetent fashion. Same with many aspects of their governance, hence turning voters against them. Like what republicans are doing now. 

So, you admit socialists like sanders are even more incompetent.

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Elliott said:

So, you admit socialists like sanders are even more incompetent.

Depends on the ideal possibilities of success and how closely they got to them. 

[Elliott]

Just now, Raze said:

Depends on the ideal possibilities of success and how closely they got to them. 

🤣

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Elliott said:

🤣

This is basic reasoning 

[Elliott]

11 minutes ago, Raze said:

This is basic reasoning 

"Democrats lost because they're weak" "socialists lose because democrats are too powerful"

More like basic denial

'Socialists just need to sell it better!' "Hot dog, get your hot dog!"

Edited 17 hours ago by Elliott

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Elliott said:

"Democrats lost because they're weak" "socialists lose because democrats are too powerful"

More like basic denial

'Socialists just need to sell it better!'

Both are true.

Socialists failed to sell themselves in many ways,

However incompetence isn’t just about winning, there are other factors.

If there is an election between a candidate who polls at 1% and another who polls at 99%, then the result is 49% and 51% respectively, the loser was far more competent than the winner who bungled his lead. Still not enough to overcome the odds.

Sanders fought an uphill battle and gained ground but lost.

Democrats had the advantage and screwed it up.

[Kid A]

Very interesting discussion. If @Elliott could just stop being an ass… Just like yesterday with the discussion about whether TV is realistic or not.

[Elliott]

@Raze @Kid A let's play out your mental charade

What EXACTLY, give a specific thing that Democrats should have done to convince more people to buy happy meals?

 

Here's things they should have done differently

-Biden never run in 2024

-no vaccine mandate

-kept student loan forgiveness more quiet, not celebrate it

-something very hard to predict, they should have waited on the bipartisan infrastructure spending, they over compensated to dampen the recession. This contributed to inflation, although probably marginally. 

-cut defense spending

 

Here's things they should NOT have done which I believe you're implying

- promise fantastical socialist programs(not going to happen, even if mamdani becomes president)

 

These empty promises, like we will all get the joy of publicly humiliating about with Mamdani, BACKFIRE and cause long term distrust and you get another Trump in 10 years.

You're suggesting LYING to win

"Get ya hot dog!" ...... "hey mother fucker, there's no hot dog in this bun", yelp review still 10 years later 0 stars for Raze's Dogs

Socialists think they're playing 5d chess by shitting in the middle of the chess board, a 5 year old child "I win!". You guys are so super-intelligent that you can't defeat a 90 year old alzheimers patient that in YOUR words can't sell crack to crackheads.

The only thing that's been offered in this thread is a nebulous pseudo-intellectual "dEmOcRaTs aRE dA wOrStEst!!!!" It was suggested let Cory booker lead and adopt an fdr message, those are the silver bullets that break the rust belt voter eh? 🙄"we need a better mommy to promise to mommy us" . And this thread is posted anew by the same users every month, since back before the election, like Russian bots.

Edited 14 hours ago by Elliott

[Raze]

11 hours ago, Elliott said:

 

- promise fantastical socialist programs(not going to happen, even if mamdani becomes president)

 

These empty promises, like we will all get the joy of publicly humiliating about with Mamdani, BACKFIRE and cause long term distrust and you get another Trump in 10 years.

You're suggesting LYING to win

"Get ya hot dog!" ...... "hey mother fucker, there's no hot dog in this bun", yelp review still 10 years later 0 stars for Raze's Dogs

Socialists think they're playing 5d chess by shitting in the middle of the chess board, a 5 year old child "I win!". You guys are so super-intelligent that you can't defeat a 90 year old alzheimers patient that in YOUR words can't sell crack to crackheads.

The only thing that's been offered in this thread is a nebulous pseudo-intellectual "dEmOcRaTs aRE dA wOrStEst!!!!" It was suggested let Cory booker lead and adopt an fdr message, those are the silver bullets that break the rust belt voter eh? 🙄"we need a better mommy to promise to mommy us" . And this thread is posted anew by the same users every month, since back before the election, like Russian bots.

There is nothing fanatical about programs that are less extreme than ones successfully implemented in Canada, the UK, etc.

Biden himself implemented some so called fanatical programs like the child credit but let them run out while people got wrecked from inflation making his position worse. 

Biden even ran on things like the public option because he knew it was popular, but just didn’t follow through. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Raze

[Elliott]

2 hours ago, Raze said:

There is nothing fanatical about programs that are less extreme than ones successfully implemented in Canada, the UK, etc.

Biden himself implemented some so called fanatical programs like the child credit but let them run out while people got wrecked from inflation making his position worse. 

Biden even ran on things like the public option because he knew it was popular, but just didn’t follow through. 

Biden cannot magically do single payer, thats asinine.

So, this is your item that dems will win 60% in the senate on? An item 40% of the u.s. supports.

Biden ran on it, you said so, why didn't we win 60% of the senate then?

Canada and UK are the size of Alabama or Mississippi. They're much more socially developed, but the shear size of the United States alone, disregarding the diversity, does not allow a fair comparison.

Why hasn't Sanders started these things in Vermont, at all, anything? He's been in politics there for 90 years, he was a mayor I think.

These things need done at the state level, or even city level.

60% in senate is required to pass this stuff.

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[Hardkill]

20 hours ago, kguirnela said:

No your missing the fucking point. You continue to blame democrats while you refuse take responsibility for yourself & telling others don't vote for democrats their the same. Thats what I meant when I was referring to Mikie Sherrill when your basically saying thats not enough. Basically this is what I'm saying, voters like you need to take responsibility. There is no excuse for the voters on why they can't vote democrats if they want to stop Trump 

At the 1:24 mark, that is you

I never said to people to never vote Democrat. I always vote blue and tell other to always vote blue no matter what whether it's a moderate Democrat or progressive Democrat running for office. Democrats are always better than Republicans no matter what.

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

Biden cannot magically do single payer, thats asinine.

So, this is your item that dems will win 60% in the senate on? An item 40% of the u.s. supports.

Biden ran on it, you said so, why didn't we win 60% of the senate then?

Canada and UK are the size of Alabama or Mississippi. They're much more socially developed, but the shear size of the United States alone, disregarding the diversity, does not allow a fair comparison.

Why hasn't Sanders started these things in Vermont, at all, anything? He's been in politics there for 90 years, he was a mayor I think.

These things need done at the state level, or even city level.

60% in senate is required to pass this stuff.

- I didn’t say single payer, I said public option

- the US is far wealthier than the other countries that have single payer, the idea we couldn’t do it makes no sense

- Because state based changes are different from federal based changes, some things cannot be done unless from a top down level

- by your logic we should have never done a single federal program because it should just come from a city level 

- The president can apply pressure to get votes for something, if you can’t pass a popular proposal you are incompetent. Biden simply never wanted to and just lied about supporting public option because he knew it would help him get elected.

[Elliott]

22 minutes ago, Raze said:

- I didn’t say single payer, I said public option

 

Quote

- the US is far wealthier than the other countries that have single payer, the idea we couldn’t do it makes no sense

The idea -- that we cannot do public option, because only 40% of the u.s. supports it, makes... no sense?

 

 

Quote

- Because state based changes are different from federal based changes, some things cannot be done unless from a top down level

 

The Century Foundation

https://tcf.org

How to Create a Public Health Insurance Plan: Lessons from States

Apr 21, 2025 — One approach that three states—Washington, Nevada, and Colorado—have adopted is creating a public option for health coverage.

 

Quote

- by your logic we should have never done a single federal program because it should just come from a city level 

Ya, and we wouldn't have Trump holding them hostage right now, would we?

 

Quote

- The president can apply pressure to get votes for something, if you can’t pass a popular proposal you are incompetent. Biden simply never wanted to and just lied about supporting public option because he knew it would help him get elected.

Do you understand that you pay individually out of pocket to be on Public Option health insirance?

Edited 47 minutes ago by Elliott

[Raze]

14 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Ya, and we wouldn't have Trump holding them hostage right now, would we?

So you think the new deal, social security, Medicare, public school, obamacare, were all mistakes that hurt the left?

14 minutes ago, Elliott said:

 

IT ONLY HAS 40% APPROVAL IN U.S.

https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2025/11/medicare-for-all-is-popular-even-when-put-up-against-attacks

[Elliott]

22 minutes ago, Raze said:

So you think the new deal, social security, Medicare, public school, obamacare, were all mistakes that hurt the left?

"Hurt the left"? No. I think state run would be better.

 

Quote

https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2025/11/medicare-for-all-is-popular-even-when-put-up-against-attacks

Your poll shows 36%. Read the actual poll not the condensed 'abstraction' on the right of it (read who it's by in the bottom right corner)

 

"About 4 in 10 Americans say they support a single-payer health care system" AP- NORC poll

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/majority-of-americans-unhappy-with-health-care-system-ap-norc-poll

Edited 24 minutes ago by Elliott

[Raze]

26 minutes ago, Elliott said:

"Hurt the left"? No. I think state run would be better.

Irrelevant, they are popular federal programs.

26 minutes ago, Elliott said:

 

Your poll shows 36%. Read the actual poll not the condensed 'abstraction' on the right of it (read who it's by in the bottom right corner)

 

"About 4 in 10 Americans say they support a single-payer health care system" AP- NORC poll

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/majority-of-americans-unhappy-with-health-care-system-ap-norc-poll

That is 36% who strongly support, 29% also somewhat support, totaling 65% 

Your poll is from years ago and also says the other 58% say they support a public option. Which Biden ran on then never attempted to pass.

If you can’t pass something you won running on which has 58% support you are incompetent.

Trump literally gets republicans and some democrats to regularly vote for things 70% of Americans are against.