The Great Bernadette Roberts

[RisingLane]

No one describes the ego and the self-conscious mechanism quite like Bernadette Roberts. Her book "What is Self?" is an impressive achievement.

She believed in free will, and she was a monotheist, but aside from that, her explanation of the self-conscious mechanism is unmatched.

As a contemplative, she studied the interior movements closely and described them with precision.

Check out this interview with her.

Edited yesterday at 03:19 PM by RisingLane

[Michal__]

Great books. I read "What is Self?" too.

[RisingLane]

30 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

Great books. I read "What is Self?" too.

Many fans of "The Experience of No-Self" don’t seem to enjoy "What is Self?" as much, finding it too technical, yet that book contains so many beautiful passages with clear and insightful descriptions of ego and self.

For example:

"The term 'ego' articulates a specific experience. Its best articulation might be this: the ego is what we feel when self-will is crossed, blocked or otherwise thwarted. It is the psychological pain that underlies all tantrum behaviors—anger, hitting back, revenge, anxiety and much more. It is the cause of true psychological and spiritual suffering and always symptomatic of an imbalanced, immature psyche. The ego is the interior movement we experience when we do not get what we want; it is also the experience of near uncontainable highs when we do get what we want. Obviously the ego is the experience of extremes—extreme feelings, that is—and for this reason it easily imbalances the whole psyche or consciousness. The ego is first and foremost the feeling-self—it is not, primarily at least, the knowing-self. Merely to know something exists—an object, a virtue, something good or bad—does not mean that we want it for ourselves. The ego springs alive only when we want something for ourselves and are determined to get it, possess it. This affirms that the ego is the experience of self-will, a will turned solely on itself that seeks its own fulfillment and benefit. When frustrated this egoic power or energy has given rise to all the evils in the world, yet the same ego in pursuit of goodness can give rise to great good in the world. Thus the ego is a particular self-energy or power that can go either way—negatively toward what is not good for self, positively toward what is good for self. If we believe that the divine is our highest good, then the ego (self-energy or self-will) goes in pursuit of the divine, and this pursuit is the ego's true, proper, developmental direction. The ego is, therefore, basically good; it is only bad when it goes against its own highest good."

[Michal__]

I didn't finish "The experience of No-Self".

[RisingLane]

5 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

I didn't finish "The experience of No-Self".

Interesting. It’s probably her most accessible and entertaining book.

[Michal__]

18 minutes ago, RisingLane said:

Interesting. It’s probably her most accessible and entertaining book.

I just got lazy. I am low key addicted to modafinil and only put in enough time reading, meditating and working when I am on it. I was out of it for a long time.

[gettoefl]

She is good. Here is her 13 step path. Read from bottom to top. 

[gettoefl]

Quote

 

I know of no other way of articulating this turning point than to put it in purely Christian terms. Having realized self’s abiding oneness with the Divine, there is also the realization of Christ's self, his purely human self and its oneness with the Divine. At one time the divine Logos (or preincarnate Christ) “put off” absolute divinity in order to "put on" humanity, that is, to fully accept the conditional life of self. In like manner, the present turning point is the contemplative’s full acceptance of the conditional, impermanent and non eternal self and the “putting off” of the final Divine Condition.

This putting off, or having no more experiences of "outshining" or Beatific foretastes is accomplished by moving into the marketplace of the common man in order to fully live the conditional self. Live it in the Realized Condition of Oneness just as Christ lived it, giving away the self in the living of it with other selves. This means that the contemplative now seeks the maximum arising of the phenomenal self, which, as we have said, serves as a maximum "reminder" of its Divine Center. The degree to which we seek this maximum arising is proportionate to the speed with which we traverse this marketplace stage of the journey. (Many people do not realize that the marketplace is a necessary stage of the journey. Instead, there is the general belief that once we come to the Realized or Unitive Condition, this is the end of the line. This is a false or wrong view, of course).

The other way to go is to continue to relish and protect our exalted and blissful experiences of Beatific Outshining by keeping to our meditative, contemplative, or less distracting style of life – obviously, the reclusive lifestyle is more conducive to having such experiences. But actually, that would be the same as the butterfly clinging to his cocoon, the refusal of the Realizer to let go the raft once he has come to the other shore. In that case, there has been no complete acceptance of the phenomenal conditional self. Indeed, there cannot be full acceptance of self until and unless there is a "putting off" of the Final Divine Condition or heavenly state – total detachment from this experience, total surrender and forfeiture of it. This can only be done, however, by moving into the marketplace of ordinary life and becoming one with the unknown, unrealized and unenlightened. The marketplace means choosing the maximum opportunities and circumstances under which the conditional self can arise. This is the true challenge of the mature, Realized human being.

 

[RisingLane]

Her 13-step path is fascinating. Even after reading The Real Christ—her most challenging book—I still don’t fully grasp what she means by Christ. She never outright says “You are God” like Leo does, though she comes close. She seems to emphasize an eternal union with God without identifying as God. I’m not sure if she stopped short because of her Christian faith, or if Leo’s take is simply wrong.

[gettoefl]

8 minutes ago, RisingLane said:

Her 13-step path is fascinating. Even after reading The Real Christ—her most challenging book—I still don’t fully grasp what she means by Christ. She never outright says “You are God” like Leo does, though she comes close. She seems to emphasize an eternal union with God without identifying as God. I’m not sure if she stopped short because of her Christian faith, or if Leo’s take is simply wrong.

I'd say Christ is the activity of God that creates finite universes like this one. God knows nothing about here. Since just like the finite cannot know the infinite so too the infinite cannot know the finite. It God knew here, here would be eternal. God outsources this project to the apple of his eye, his Son the Christ.

[RisingLane]

7 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

I'd say Christ is the activity of God that creates finite universes like this one. God knows nothing about here. Since just like the finite cannot know the infinite so too the infinite cannot know the finite. It God knew here, here would be eternal. God outsources this project to the apple of his eye, his Son the Christ.

Fascinating! But isn’t God supposed to be omniscient? How could God not know about this place? And why does she insist that “I am God” is nonsense? She even had an “I am God” experience herself, which seemed to have really frightened her.

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, RisingLane said:

the ego is what we feel when self-will is crossed, blocked or otherwise thwarted. It is the psychological pain that underlies all tantrum behaviors—

The ego is more than that. When your mind is in absolute silence, there is still a barrier. There is a center, a kind of black hole into which all experience converges. A receiver, an observer, where everything ends, which absorbs all the movement of reality but remains immobile.

This center is the ego. It can be an aligned, disciplined ego, one that accepts, that does not desire, that only observes. But it is still an ego. The absence of ego is the dissolution of the center. This is the difficult part of the game. The door without a door, which wants to be opened by the door itself.

[gettoefl]

3 hours ago, RisingLane said:

Fascinating! But isn’t God supposed to be omniscient? How could God not know about this place? And why does she insist that “I am God” is nonsense? She even had an “I am God” experience herself, which seemed to have really frightened her.

Here is the thing. We think we live separately from God - every look in the mirror confirms this assumption. The journey then is man->Christ->God. Christ is what breaks down the idea we are separate from God and enables us to live out of that truth. It is how we come to unitive consciousness and then to no-self and then to fullness in God. Christ is the marketplace stage of Robert's path where we live fully carrying out God's work. I am God is nonsense in egoic consciousness which is where all think they are. God cannot know a two-ness universe since two-ness is an impossibility we made up out of thin air. God doesn't mind we did this but knows there is a better reality where suffering is not the case and so God has Christ be the vehicle for the apparent journey back to oneness.

Edited 20 hours ago by gettoefl

[RisingLane]

7 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The ego is more than that. When your mind is in absolute silence, there is still a barrier. There is a center, a kind of black hole into which all experience converges. A receiver, an observer, where everything ends, which absorbs all the movement of reality but remains immobile.

This center is the ego. It can be an aligned, disciplined ego, one that accepts, that does not desire, that only observes. But it is still an ego. The absence of ego is the dissolution of the center. This is the difficult part of the game. The door without a door, which wants to be opened by the door itself.

Roberts says the center is what’s left when the ego disappears, explaining it in the video above using circles. I’m not sure a desireless ego can exist. She believes the ego comes alive the moment we want something, and that it can’t truly accept. Only the egoless center remains unmoved.

[gettoefl]

Quote

Below is a clear, plain-language rendering of Bernadette Roberts’ full awakening trajectory, moving from the bottom of the chart to the top, preserving her distinctions while stripping away technical density.

This is not a path of self-improvement, but a progressive undoing of self, God-image, and consciousness itself.

Bernadette Roberts’ Stages of Awakening (in simple language)

1. Pre-Path: Ordinary Human Seeking

You begin as a normal person:

questioning life

doubting beliefs

exploring spirituality

trying practices

testing ideas

There is still a clear sense of “me” seeking something higher.

2. Conversion / Turning Toward God

A decisive inner shift happens:

life is re-oriented toward Truth

ego desires lose their central pull

devotion, sincerity, and commitment arise

This is the start of the inward journey.

3. Active Effort on the Path

You engage in:

prayer, meditation, inquiry

moral and psychological purification

disciplined spiritual practice

There is effort, intention, and progress.
The self is still very active.

4. Passive Night of the Senses

Spiritual pleasure fades:

joy, sweetness, and inspiration disappear

prayer feels dry

practices feel empty

This is not failure.
It is the stripping away of attachment to spiritual experiences.

5. Interior Void / Unknowing

A deeper emptiness appears:

familiar meaning collapses

certainty dissolves

God feels absent

you feel lost, undone, unknown

There is nothing to hold onto—not even faith as you knew it.

6. Passive Night of the Spirit

This is the most severe stage:

identity itself collapses

the “center” of being dissolves

fear, darkness, and powerlessness dominate

there is no control, no understanding, no ground

The self cannot survive this intact.

7. No-Ego / Centerless Living

Something falls away permanently:

the sense of “I” as a center vanishes

life continues, but without a personal doer

actions happen spontaneously

there is simplicity, ordinariness, clarity

There is no longer a self experiencing God.

8. Mid-Point of the Inward Journey

Life becomes:

quiet

steady

functional

deeply grounded

There is peace, but still a subtle sense of being in God.

9. Union / Divine Life

A profound unity is lived:

God is experienced as life itself

love flows naturally

service happens effortlessly

there is no inner conflict

This is classic mystical union — “I live, yet not I.”

10. Turning Point: God Dissolves

Unexpectedly:

even the experience of God disappears

no presence remains

no union remains

no inner reference point remains

This is shocking and irreversible.

11. No-Self / No-Consciousness

What remains:

no inner observer

no subject experiencing objects

no God-image

no spiritual identity

Yet life functions perfectly.

This is not unconsciousness — it is beyond consciousness.

12. Resurrection / Absolute Reality

What is revealed:

reality as it is, without a center

no “me,” no “God,” no witness

only what is

Bernadette calls this:

the Absolute

the Void

the Form of God beyond God

Nothing personal remains.
Nothing mystical remains.
Nothing is missing.

13. Ascension / God-Aware Void

The highest articulation:

not union

not consciousness

not self

not God as known

Only Reality knowing itself without a knower.

In one sentence

The journey moves from a self seeking God,
to a self united with God,
to the disappearance of both self and God,
revealing what was always there.

- AI

 

[RisingLane]

42 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

The journey moves from a self seeking God,
to a self united with God,
to the disappearance of both self and God,
revealing what was always there.

That would be the Godhead, right? The Godhead is What Is.

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, RisingLane said:

Roberts says the center is what’s left when the ego disappears, explaining it in the video above using circles. I’m not sure a desireless ego can exist. She believes the ego comes alive the moment we want something, and that it can’t truly accept. Only the egoless center remains unmoved.

9 hours ago, RisingLane said:

 

Spiritual teachers say that desire is ego and must disappear to achieve enlightenment, but desire is an inherent part of life. Enlightenment is not the absence of desire; it is openness to the ultimate nature of reality. Let's say the self learns to erase its centrality at will in certain moments and ceases to perceive itself in a self-referential way, like an energetic rebound that only reveals lack, and instead perceives openly, without a background to bounce off of.

For the self To perceive is the same as to be; the self is perception. The self, the mind, is an interface between the living organism and the external universe (letting aside all that about it's a dream etc). In fact, it is impossible for the self to disappear if you are alive and conscious; what is possible is the frequency at which it exists. 

The point is that the energetic cloud that links the organism to the external universe is, in fact, a living organism, a stable, self-preserving structure that seeks to persist. This self is what we call consciousness, and it can be conscious of limits or of limitlessness.

In the latter case, the inherent vitality of reality becomes obvious, springing forth endlessly given its limitlessness. Then the self stops perceiving itself as separate, realizes that it is an expression of the totality in a way that is interconnected with everything, and ceases to perceive lack as an absolute in order to perceive limitlessness existing as an ontological ground of reality. This is enlightenment: not realizing that the self is an illusion and all that.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, RisingLane said:

That would be the Godhead, right? The Godhead is What Is.

Yes the Godhead which to me is the Absolute Infinitely Expanding Enjoying Terrain Chance Adventure ... and sometimes producing what at first looks like tawdry pitiful imperfection ... but is always flawless beguiling majestic ...

Edited 4 hours ago by gettoefl