What can be better relief then...

[Breakingthewall]

14 hours ago, TheSelf said:

What's a mind? Like right now, in this very moment, find it, hold onto it. If found it, define it

Mind is relationship. All existence is relationship.

What we call mind is the energetic universe that establishes relationships, creates symbols, archetypes, and patterns for functioning as a human among humans.

[Breakingthewall]

14 hours ago, James123 said:

No. İn that moment. Do not presume from now.

 deep sleep is the cessation of the mind, no movement, relationship, comparison. Deep sleep is out of time, because time requires change. So deep sleep is going to finish in some moment, and some moment is immediately, because it's out of time. Relationship, movement, consciousness, is going to emerge again, because it's a possibility 

Edited Saturday at 11:31 AM by Breakingthewall

[James123]

27 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 deep sleep is the cessation of the mind, no movement, relationship, comparison. Deep sleep is out of time, because time requires change. So deep sleep is going to finish in some moment, and some moment is immediately, because it's out of time. Relationship, movement, consciousness, is going to emerge again, because it's a possibility 

What I say is, think these in deep sleep. 😊 

That's what i mean as in that moment.

 

[TheSelf]

38 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Mind is relationship. All existence is relationship.

What we call mind is the energetic universe that establishes relationships, creates symbols, archetypes, and patterns for functioning as a human among humans.

But these are more ideas about what the mind could be, like a relationship but what is a releationship if it's the substance of the mind? you thinking these now by the mind. You said in future there might the mind again, another stories etc.

I'm saying something that you think is real and worry about it must be real now in you experience to hold onto it.

If we trace the mind activities, it keeps merging back in pure awareness in the now from that which it arises as forms of thoughts.

See? There is no mind to grab and hold but realtime thoughts and thoughts are being generated on the fly by pure consciousness.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 12:07 PM by TheSelf

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, TheSelf said:

saying something that you think is real and worry about it must be real now in you experience to hold onto it.

It's not that what I think is real, it's that thought itself is the reality. There's no difference between thought and direct experience; they are the same. Thought is a relational structure that reality is currently adopting.

There is no separation between the self and thought; thought creates the self. The self is not a receiver of thought; it is the center that emerges when thoughts happen

1 hour ago, TheSelf said:

we trace the mind activities, it keeps merging back in pure awareness in the now from that which it arises as forms of thoughts.

The awareness is made by the mental activity, if the mind ceases, for example in anesthesia, awareness cease. That of pure awareness is just a spiritual idea , religion 

[TheSelf]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's not that what I think is real, it's that thought itself is the reality. 

Real most be real without conditions, you do not think but exist in deep sleep.

Patterns of the conditioned mind changes all the time, how can you say the mind is real while what you think is totally different than what thought a year ago... even the physical body's atomic structure totally changes every year. 

What's your definition of real?

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

There is no separation between the self and thought; thought creates the self. The self is not a receiver of thought; it is the center that emerges when thoughts happen

There's no separation between anything, as the absolute consciousness is all there's. but one doesn't ground himself in something that changes all the time. The expression of consciousness changes all the time. 

The self is not an idea to be created or destroyed so no, you are not destroyed when you are not thinking

Understanding this requires direct experience (using this word since I cannot find better word as its not a experience like any mind experiences) of the truth when total stillness achived.

No thoughts create anything as all mind activities are within the self, subjectivity is not result of thought process, it's the Reality. The ground of existence which you are.

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

The awareness is made by the mental activity

So stop your mental activities for a sec and you must be gone.

In deep sleep you do not experience a mind but you exist. Can you say otherwise?

Edited Saturday at 02:40 PM by TheSelf

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, TheSelf said:

Understanding this requires direct experience (using this word since I cannot find better word as its not a experience like any mind experiences) of the truth when total stillness achived.

Then the stillness is true and the movement is false.

 

1 hour ago, TheSelf said:

Patterns of the conditioned mind changes all the time, how can you say the mind is real while what you think is totally different than what thought a year ago... even the physical body's atomic structure totally changes every year.

What is real is the existence, the thought itself. The interpretation is also real, as an interpretation, it's just an energetic flow. .

1 hour ago, TheSelf said:

There's no separation between anything, as the absolute consciousness is all there's. b

The absolute is absolute. Consciousness is relative. 

 

[TheSelf]

52 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then the stillness is true and the movement is false

To realize the Truth one must sit still to see beyond all the illusions and tricks of the mind.

One Identifying himself with a mental activity like a thought as you say is the source of suffering and misery.

58 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What is real is the existence, the thought itself

Existence is you.

Thoughts are expressions, they do change, if you identify with a thought and you do not experience that thought later what are you gonna identify with again? Next thought? Aren't you gonna ask who am I in the center of all these movements?

Identifying with with the field of changes (movements of the mind) brings suffering. The truth bring freedom from suffering.

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

The absolute is absolute. Consciousness is relative. 

Absolute is consciousness, consciousness is Absolute. Theres nothing outside the Truth. Creating a devision between anything is illusion and work of the mind.

[Mellowmarsh]

4 hours ago, James123 said:

What I say is, think these in deep sleep. 😊 

That's what i mean as in that moment.

 

Is being unconscious of being conscious known as GOD?

And is conscious of being conscious known as God’s dream?

Edited Saturday at 04:50 PM by Mellowmarsh

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, TheSelf said:

Absolute is consciousness, consciousness is Absolute. Theres nothing outside the Truth. Creating a devision between anything is illusion and work of the mind.

Believing that consciousness is the absolute occurs through identification with human experience. It's a limit. 

14 minutes ago, TheSelf said:

Thoughts are expressions, they do change, if you identify with a thought and you do not experience that thought later what are you gonna identify with again? Next thought? Aren't you gonna ask who am I in the center of all these movements?

In your vision, you are the observer, the center of the thoughts, like a receptor who receive the experience. That's a center, and a center is a limit. It prevents the real openess. 

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, James123 said:

What I say is, think these in deep sleep. 😊 

That's what i mean as in that moment.

 

The moment in deep sleep is absence of anything, but later it's presence. Both are possibilities, why the nothingness is more real than the presence? Are you now in deep sleep? Then, why it's real according to you?

[TheSelf]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Believing that consciousness is the absolute occurs through identification with human experience. It's a limit. 

Existence= Consciousness = Awareness =  Being = Absolute.

One reality.

I might use different words but I always mean the same ever shining reality. The self.

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

In your vision, you are the observer, the center of the thoughts, like a receptor who receive the experience. That's a center, and a center is a limit. It prevents the real openess. 

No

In my state I'm an empty space, awareness, stillness, being, ground, nothing that within myself I express as forms of thoughts, a sound, a butterfly, a galaxy etc.

I might express nothing too. But I exist, I don't see a difference between expressing or not expressing as all is same. 

I dont see a separation between anything. How can I see?

[Breakingthewall]

25 minutes ago, TheSelf said:

my state I'm an empty space, awareness, stillness, being, ground, nothing that within myself I express as forms of thoughts, a sound, a butterfly, a galaxy etc.

I understand that but for me there is a duality between you and the things that appears. For me that's the duality that must be broken. 

 

25 minutes ago, TheSelf said:

might use different words but I always mean the same ever shining reality. The self.

In my opinion, the self is the human self in a different vibration. It's very difficult open that door. 

Just an opinion, you never know ,it's difficult to understand some expressions. For me the absolute is openess, not anything else, it's the absence of limitations, and the self, consciousness, experience, are manifestations. It's extremely difficult for me breaking the self. It's like an energetic barrier that feels like a center. There is not attachment to the thoughts, empty mind, but still a center. When that center is broken, the absolute manifest itself. The total openess. Just sometimes, it's a shift that requires a restructuration of the energy pattern that I am

 

Edited Saturday at 05:31 PM by Breakingthewall

[James123]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

The moment in deep sleep is absence of anything, but later it's presence. Both are possibilities, why the nothingness is more real than the presence? Are you now in deep sleep? Then, why it's real according to you?

What We truly are is always in so called deep sleep, as before physical birth.

Life happens to body and mind.

[Mellowmarsh]

39 minutes ago, James123 said:

What We truly are is always in so called deep sleep, as before physical birth.

Life happens to body and mind.

So body and mind are in you. You are not in your body and mind?

Any thing witnessed can feel like you, but is not you because you are infinite. 

You are the witness of finite things. Witnessed things are finite arising and falling in infinite you the watcher. 
 

 

Edited Saturday at 07:32 PM by Mellowmarsh

[James123]

31 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

So body and mind are in you. You are not in your body and mind?

Any thing witnessed can feel like you, but is not you because you are infinite. 

You are the witness of finite things. Witnessed things are finite arising and falling in infinite you the watcher. 
 

 

Anything and everything including infinite arises and falls within You.

You are none of them.

32 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Any thing witnessed can feel like you, but is not you because you are infinite. 

You are the witness of finite things. Witnessed things are finite arising and falling in infinite you the watcher. 

Do not attach to these beliefs or any beliefs.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

What We truly are is always in so called deep sleep, as before physical birth.

Life happens to body and mind.

Deep sleep is one facet of reality, and being awake is another, don't you think? Defining reality as deep sleep versus being awake sounds, let's say, Incomprehensible, to say the least.

What you do all the time is define reality based on ideas that exclude everything that has form, labeling it as false, and the truth is deep sleep because that's what existed before birth. Do you understand how those ideas sound? 

Try this mental frame: 

Reality is limitless. Our current state is limited. Limits are energetic and mental  (for example, believing that deep sleep is real and being awake is false). Spiritual work is about dissolving limits until only total openness remains. Simple, right? Without all that mess about deep sleep.

[Breakingthewall]

46 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Any thing witnessed can feel like you, but is not you because you are infinite. 

You are the witness of finite things. Witnessed things are finite arising and falling in infinite you the watcher. 

There you are creating a limit between you and what appears. Being the observer is a limit, it's the center. The limit that is more difficult to break, the most counterintuitive. Everything could appear empty, mind without thought, absolute stillness, but the center is still there. The center must fall, there is the real thing. Infinite, finite, illusion, truth, all that are just limits. When the limits fall, the openess is total. Very difficult, the last frontier. 

[James123]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Try this mental frame: 

😊 Who? Me or body? 😊 

[Mellowmarsh]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

What We truly are is always in so called deep sleep, as before physical birth. 
 

So nothing is all there is.