DocWatts

Can We Just Call Them Our Equivalent Of The Nazis Already?

51 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Can you give an example of the cancel-culture you're referring to?

You deny that progressives have been trying to get people to act in line through various means of demonization and shaming?

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@Scholar Two things can be simultaneously true:

1) People should face social, political, and financial consequences for spreading malicious bullshit (ie Alex Jones spreading conspiracies that the victims of mass shootings are paid crisis actors without one iota of evidence)

2) These consequences can sometimes be poorly calibrated for the actual offense (ie dog piling on someone for a nothing burger).

That doesn't mean we just give up holding people accountable for their actions - it means that we make sure the consequences are proportional to the harm caused 

Edited by DocWatts

I have a Substack, where I write about epistemology, metarationality, and the Meaning Crisis. 

Check it out at : https://7provtruths.substack.com/

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5 minutes ago, Scholar said:

You deny that progressives have been trying to get people to act in line through various means of demonization and shaming?

You can't provide an example so we can see what you're talking about? Rape SHOULD be demonized.

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3 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

@Scholar Two things can be simultaneously true:

1) People should face social, political, and financial consequences for spreading malicious bullshit (ie Alex Jones spreading conspiracies that the victims of mass shootings are paid crisis actors without one iota of evidence)

2) These consequences can sometimes be poorly calibrated for the actual offense (ie dog piling on someone for a nothing burger).

That doesn't mean we just give up holding people accountable for their actions - it means that we make sure the consequences are proportional to the harm caused 

Yes but that is not the problem with progressives. The problem with progressives is, if you ever actually were in a social space in which they dominate, is that if you step out of the ideological bounds of whatever they currently deem the moral imperative of the universe that you will be pressured into agreeing with them not through understanding and expansion of empathy but through sheer peer enforcement.

Words like racist, fascist, transphobe, sexist, white-supremacist etc have been employed at basically every occasion it was feasible to do so, often times against people engaging in things that are just normal to them.

You can't get moral progress this way, because people actually have to expand their identity. If you do it all through peer pressure, it leads to a contraction and conditional moral behavior. You can't force people into empathy, it just doesn't work this way.

 

I truly despise progressives, because I consider myself an actual progressive. I believe there are issues of such importance that every day we keep focusing on nonsense issues like trans rights or racism we basically are causing the equivalent of the holocaust. To me, people actually are akin to nazis. In fact the average joe to me is more akin to a interdimensional child-eating pedophile nazi, yet I can compose myself, be the adult in the room and realize that this won't change by me screeching at everyone by calling them human supremacist and pressuring them all to care about animal rihts. It just doesn't work.

We are so far from solving these issues because all of this pure mental illness is just infecting everything and everyone around me. I have to listen to their mental diarrhea and watch how they self-righteously ruin all potential for progress while they  don't realize they aren't better than the so-called fascists they themselves criticize.

 

7 minutes ago, Elliott said:

You can't provide an example so we can see what you're talking about? Rape SHOULD be demonized.

Look at what happened to Ana Kasparian, she stated that she was basically uncomfortable with homeless people roaming the streets and the danger of getting attacked after she was molested by one and progressives lashed out at her as if she was Hitler 2.0, and now she has actually become an ally of the Trumpists.

 

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2 minutes ago, Scholar said:

 

Yes but that is not the problem with progressives. The problem with progressives is, if you ever actually were in a social space in which they dominate, is that if you step out of the ideological bounds of whatever they currently deem the moral imperative of the universe that you will be pressured into agreeing with them not through understanding and expansion of empathy but through sheer peer enforcement.

Words like racist, fascist, transphobe, sexist, white-supremacist etc have been employed at basically every occasion it was feasible to do so, often times against people engaging in things that are just normal to them.

 

This is not "social spaces" as you're trying to frame it, these are political spaces. You get called racist for grocery shopping?

Edited by Elliott

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1 minute ago, Elliott said:

This is not "social spaces" as you're trying to frame it, these are political spaces.

No, I have several non-political spaces in which progressives are active in which I can see these dynamics play out. Several of my progressive friends think the Charlie Kirk assassination was positie and that terrorism is justified for the greater good. But this issue has been going on for literal years, progressives have been insufferably brain-rotted for a decade now. And they don't even stand on the right side of history is the worst of it. It's only their pet progressive issues that matter. Today it's I/P, and tomorrow it will be whatever else they get activated into getting outraged about.

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10 minutes ago, Scholar said:

No, I have several non-political spaces in which progressives are active in which I can see these dynamics play out. Several of my progressive friends think the Charlie Kirk assassination was positie and that terrorism is justified for the greater good. But this issue has been going on for literal years, progressives have been insufferably brain-rotted for a decade now. And they don't even stand on the right side of history is the worst of it. It's only their pet progressive issues that matter. Today it's I/P, and tomorrow it will be whatever else they get activated into getting outraged about.

But the discussion in this space is political. It's not like progressives are picketing in front of churches, Nascar, or the butcher shops (Conservatives actually do the equivalent though), It's a political conversation.

Edited by Elliott

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2 minutes ago, Elliott said:

But the discussion in this space is political. It's not like progressives are picketing in front of churches, Nascar, or the butcher shops (Conservatives actually do do that though), It's a political conversation.

I don't see how this adds anything meaningful to what I said?

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18 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I believe there are issues of such importance that every day we keep focusing on nonsense issues like trans rights or racism we basically are causing the equivalent of the holocaust.

Those are not nonsense issues at all.

They are part of what fundamentally separates modern progressives and conservatives.


"Finding your reason can be so deceiving, a subliminal place. 

I will not break, 'cause I've been riding the curves of these infinity words and so I'll be on my way. I will not stay.

 And it goes On and On, On and On"

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4 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I don't see how this adds anything meaningful to what I said?

I would imagine.

You're crying about people sharing their political views in political conversations.

 

Charlie Kirk----> POLITICAL pundit. Not that he should be killed, but obviously people are going to express emotionally charged criticism, it's done to either side.

Edited by Elliott

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6 minutes ago, aurum said:

Those are not nonsense issues at all.

They are part of what fundamentally separates modern progressives and conservatives.

They are nonsense issues compared to other issues we give zero consideration to, that are morally more urgent than any atrocity that has ever occured in human history. The amount of attention we give those issues is absurd, and the way we handle them is even more absurd. By all accounts, we have been making people more racist and transphobic in the past 4 years because of how clumsy the handling of these issues have been.

 

9 minutes ago, Elliott said:

You're crying about people sharing their political views in political conversations.

You should check if you have a brain aneurysm if that's what you got from what I said.

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Just now, Scholar said:

They are nonsense issues compared to other issues we give zero consideration to, that are morally more urgent than any atrocity that has ever occured in human history. The amount of attention we give those issues is absurd, and the way we handle them is even more absurd. By all accounts, we have been making people more racist and transphobic in the past 4 years because of how clumsy the handling of these issues have been.

 

You should check if you have a brain aneurysm if that's what you got from what I said.

It's literally what you're saying. Apparently you don't see the difference between political conversations and non-political conversations.

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43 minutes ago, Scholar said:

They are nonsense issues compared to other issues we give zero consideration to, that are morally more urgent than any atrocity that has ever occured in human history.

This is false, because all those "more urgent issues" are born out of the same low levels of development.

Racism is partially how you get things like ethnic cleansing. Is ethinic cleansing not an urgent enough issue?

43 minutes ago, Scholar said:

By all accounts, we have been making people more racist and transphobic in the past 4 years because of how clumsy the handling of these issues have been.

Whatever backlash there has been to progressivism is peanuts compared to how racist and hateful people already were. Now it's just being exposed.


"Finding your reason can be so deceiving, a subliminal place. 

I will not break, 'cause I've been riding the curves of these infinity words and so I'll be on my way. I will not stay.

 And it goes On and On, On and On"

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@Scholar examples of our cancel culture would be something like Aunt Jemimah and Uncle Ben foods, there was uproar against Dave Chappelle for transphobia, Kanye, JK Rowling, Christopher Columbus, Confederate statues,.....

 

You can't go to a forum for liberals, bring up bigot stuff, get screamed at, and call it cancel culture. You can't say bigot stuff in public without getting screamed at just like you can't support Gaza in public without getting screamed at, that's not cancel culture. Imagine drag queens showing up at a Baptist church wearing crosses.

Do you think most political discourse during the Civil rights movement was accepting of the other side? 

Edited by Elliott

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2 hours ago, aurum said:

This is false, because all those "more urgent issues" are born out of the same low levels of development.

Racism is partially how you get things like ethnic cleansing. Is ethinic cleansing not an urgent enough issue?

Ethnic cleansing isn't happening in the western world. And no, racism has been mostly overcome. You can't put all your energy into eliminating the residues when you know that will cause more resistance than good in the first place. The reality is that residue xenophobia will take centuries to be fully removed from society as it slowly progresses and resolves systemic issues. We can't be obsessing over this one thing for all that time.

And no, ethnic cleansings are irrelevant compared to what is happening in every major western city right now.

 

2 hours ago, aurum said:

Whatever backlash there has been to progressivism is peanuts compared to how racist and hateful people already were. Now it's just being exposed.

No, it has not merely been exposed. You have made identities out of these things that will now maintain their own survival. You have created resistance where you should have resolved resistance. You don't make people less racist by making racists the enemy of the state, if that's half your nation. That's a childish approach.

If racism was an important issue, then what progressives have been doing is an atrocity in and of itself. But most progressives themselves are supremacists who care little about genuine moral progress. For the most part it's a ideological circle jerk.

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28 minutes ago, Scholar said:

And no, racism has been mostly overcome. 

Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this isn't a deliberately bad faith take, but if so this is completely delusional. 

Edited by DocWatts

I have a Substack, where I write about epistemology, metarationality, and the Meaning Crisis. 

Check it out at : https://7provtruths.substack.com/

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10 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Ill give you the benefit of the doubt that assume this isn't a deliberately bad faith take, but if so this is completely delusional. 

You just have no idea what an actual racist culture looks like. You are spoiled.

Xenophobia and racial stereotyping is not the same as racism or white supremacy. Having racists in your society does not make your society racist or racism a profound problem.

 

If you want to understand what true discrimination looks when like when it actually reaches such isms, look no further than what we do to animals. In that case you can say we live in a speciesist society, that our culture is human supremacist and that this is a profound moral emergency that must be corrected and for which our society will be viewed equivalent to the worst transgressors in history.

But hey, who cares, a few humans dying here and there and being discriminated against is more important than putting an end to biblical hell on earth that we have constructed with our own hands.

 

The reality is that you are delusional. You have no conception of your own evil, of what evil societies are capable of and how privileged you are no matter what race you are in western societies. And next, you will proceed to justify this evil with whatever nonsense your identity will come up with to protect itself from the glaring disparity between your own perceived moral superiority and the reality of your selfishness.

Edited by Scholar

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33 minutes ago, Scholar said:

The reality is that you are delusional. You have no conception of your own evil, of what evil societies are capable of and how privileged you are no matter what race you are in western societies. And next, you will proceed to justify this evil with whatever nonsense your identity will come up with to protect itself from the glaring disparity between your own perceived moral superiority and the reality of your selfishness.

Wow, gaslight much?

"Minorites don't know how good they have it and the people pointing out racist behavior are the actual racists" - you managed to sockpuppet white nationalist propaganda verbatim. So congrats, I guess.

Not sure if you live in the States, but maybe having a loved one disappeared to a detention camp by the secret police for the crime of not being white in Trump's America would cure you of some of these delusions.

Edited by DocWatts

I have a Substack, where I write about epistemology, metarationality, and the Meaning Crisis. 

Check it out at : https://7provtruths.substack.com/

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Several things can be true:

1) Most of society is still in a very low state of development

2) Progressives can do stupid things that cause unnecessary blowback / resistance

3) Society would be at a lower state of development without progressives, not higher

4) Progressives need to acknowledge when they cause blowback without gaslighting themselves that they are always the problem


"Finding your reason can be so deceiving, a subliminal place. 

I will not break, 'cause I've been riding the curves of these infinity words and so I'll be on my way. I will not stay.

 And it goes On and On, On and On"

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6 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Wow, gaslight much? "The people pointing out racist behavior are the actual racists" - you managed to sockpuppet white nationalist propaganda verbatim. So congrats, I guess.

Ah, there we go. Your mind twisted it around so you can avoid the critique and pretend I am somehow repeating white nationalist talking points by showcasing that your obsession with human issues actually reveals the presence of a far greater form of discrimination rooted in your human supremacist identity.

The reality is that the difference between a white supremacist and the average progressive is marginal on a moral and development level, and you are showcasing this marginal difference as we speak.

 

Edited by Scholar

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