AION

There is no pride in being poor

89 posts in this topic

@Elliott Well, look at all you take for granted in your life. Compare your life to third world shitholes where there are no books or lights. 

Ive met people from Africa who never used a laptop until they got to university in Canada. What we have here is profound. 

I am not sure there is an “arc” to history. So I don’t know what you mean by that. All this stuff is also still playing out. 

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

@Elliott Well, look at all you take for granted in your life. Compare you life to third world shitholes where there are no books or lights. 

And would 3rd world shitholes be shitholes were it not for the industrialized west? Was ancient greece a shithole?

Edited by Elliott

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2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

 

I am not sure there is an “arc” to history. So I don’t know what you mean by that. All this stuff is also still playing out. 

I mean look at the meaningful changes in history, looking at history completely.

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@Elliott You can point to Greece, a historical example. And explore the argument in that direction. You can also compared Canada to a shit hole country right now and explore it in that direction. 
 

Ultimately, I think looking at all this holistically and from a systems perspective is required. It’s beyond my comprehension to truly grasp a quality understanding of all the leaders, movements, technologies, history, the rich orpoor etc 
 

Seeing as the life expectancy of Greece was 35…. I’d say we are doing better today if you think living longer is better. This is likely due to technology, science, education etc. All of which is tied in with rich people and business and technological evolution and social change. 

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

@Elliott You can point to Greece, a historical example. And explore the argument in that direction. You can also compared Canada to a shit hole country right now and explore it in that direction. 
 

Seeing as the life expectancy of Greece was 35…. I’d say we are doing better today if you think living longer is better. 

Plato lived until 80. Usually those age statistics include babies dying at birth.

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@Elliott No sewage, slavery, epidemics.

I would say lots of children dying is bad. Happens less now. Happened lots in Ancient Greece. Is that net 0?

We can’t zoom in on one thing though if we claim all of human science and technology is net 0 or not. 

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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13 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Elliott

We can’t zoom in on one thing though if we claim all of human science and technology is net 0 or not. 

I don't understand what you're saying, if you want to zoom in on a technology or person, I welcome that.

 

I think of the human experience, imagine living in ancient greece, ancient America, it's different, but has technology improved something. Is the American native experience living with nature and awe, worth giving up for more babies surviving?

But something that seems empiraclly better to me, is what MLK did, Jesus, Lincoln,.....

Edited by Elliott

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@Elliott The reality of a lot of Native American experience was brutal and savage. But, who knows? Then what did Jesus really accomplish? Things changed but are they really better? I’ll let us contemplate that. 
 

I wouldn’t say it’s empirical at all. If life is just as bad or good now as it was back then, what did these guys accomplish either?

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Elliott The reality of a lot of Native American experience was brutal and savage.

That's what American movies show it as anyway, I think you might have a false impression.

2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

But, who knows? Then what did Jesus really accomplish? Things changed but are they really better? I’ll let us contemplate that. 

Despite Jesus being co-opted for crusades, which were just a continuation of the Roman empires attempt to retake the eastern Roman Empire, the catholic church still taught Jesus's teachings, even though heavily molested. Imagine a modern Roman Empire with modern weapons, what if Europe was never Christian, regardless of how perverted a version. What other competing message of morality was there?

 

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@Elliott No I’ve listened to audiobooks on early recordings of observations with how these people lived. There is well substantiated historical accounts of the brutal nature of which these people lived. It’s like this all over the world. Humans are brutal creatures. 
 

Idk, China never had Jesus as a core teacher and they are fine. Humanity was fine before and after Jesus realistically. The idea that Jesus actually did anything profound I think is overblown. Christians are just as bad if not worse than any other religion.  He is also a myth. The bible, and all its contributing authors and its impact is massive I agree. But that’s technology and wisdom combine which is interesting to think about. 

I am actively forming an opinion on this. Not sure. 

If Jesus actually increased the conscious of humanity in a profound way that would be something. Unfortunately, those who follow him are dead weight for our growth and development. Because in reality they are not following anyone. They believe a concept which they have no direct experience of. 

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

@Elliott No I’ve listened to audiobooks on early recordings of observations with how these people lived. There is well substantiated historical accounts of the brutal nature of which these people lived. It’s like this all over the world. Humans are brutal creatures. 

 

Have you read about Thanksgiving?

 

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:


 

Idk, China never had Jesus as a core teacher and they are fine. Humanity was fine before and after Jesus realistically. 

China had teachers like Jesus.

You just commented on brutality. Looking at the trajectory Rome was on, you don't think Jesus's teachings may have altered ways of thinking?

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@Elliott What’s interesting too is that jf Jesus was always a fiction he is essentially a type of technology. 


 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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4 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Have you read about Thanksgiving?

 

China had teachers like Jesus.

You just commented on brutality. Looking at the trajectory Rome was on, you don't think Jesus's teachings may have altered ways of thinking?

No, because they went on crusades in his name. They even wiped out most of these fun loving Indians in his name too. 
 

China had teachers yeah. But they were not Jesus and we’re not the same type of religion structurally at all.

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

No, because they went on crusades in his name. 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:


 

China had teachers yeah. But they were not Jesus and we’re not the same type of religion structurally at all. 

Confucianism: “Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you” (Confucius, Analects 15.23 – 5th century BC).

I'm not including structural religion with Jesus's teachings.

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@Elliott Confucius, our lord and saviour. Repent in the name of the Buddha. Atone for your sins or Lao Tzu will send you too hell.

Common teachings, or universal truths are fine. Not sure your point there. 

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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Just now, Thought Art said:

@Elliott Confucius, our lord and saviour. Repent in the name of the Buddha. Atone for your sins or Lao Tzu will send you too hell.

That's not what Jesus taught.

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@Elliott I see I’ve fallen into the ego pleasure of arguing fruitlessly. Take care Elliot. I also got lots to contemplate on. Don’t care about proving I am right or being right here. I see lots of areas I can improve on truthful, accurate and conscious communication. 

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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8 minutes ago, Elliott said:

That's not what Jesus taught.

Yeah, but the structure of many forms of Christianity is what I am pointing to.


 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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24 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Yeah, but the structure of many forms of Christianity is what I am pointing to.

pre-christian Roman religion

"Actions that violated religious tradition or custom were seen as offenses against the gods, which could endanger the entire community. The focus was on maintaining social and cosmic order.

Correction of wrongdoing Rather than repenting, a Roman would perform a specific ritual or sacrifice to propitiate or appease the gods. The purpose was to reestablish a proper balance and restore the correct relationship with the divine."

 

"Specific Offenses

Violating rituals and public order: Performing rituals improperly, such as using incorrect forms of sacrifice or purification, was an offense that disrupted the harmonious relationship between the gods and the state. 

Iconoclasm: The destruction or mutilation of divine images and idols was a significant religious and political act, seen as an attempt to neutralize the gods' power. 

Refusal to worship state gods: Not participating in the official cults and sacrifices that affirmed loyalty to Rome and its gods was a form of impiety, especially in the context of the imperial cult. 

Promoting "foreign" cults: Introducing and adhering to new or foreign cults, such as early Christianity, was considered superstitio (superstition) that could lead to rebellion, factionalism, and instability. 

Improper religious conduct: Actions such as attending to funeral rites and then approaching celestial gods without first cleansing oneself were considered sacrilege and could have legal consequences. "

 

"Consequences

Divine anger and misfortune: 

Offenses could invoke the ira deorum (anger of the gods), which was believed to bring harm to the state and its citizens. "

Edited by Elliott

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Ambition is a farce. Discipline is king. Multiple self help dudes say this and I subscribe to it. Ambition is fleeting. I don’t think it is wise to be a bitch to ambition.  

Edited by AION

In stercore invenitur 💩 

 

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