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Hardkill

Leo, Should Progressives Pause or Pivot Their Movement After Trump’s Successes?

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I see your point, Leo — that progressives often get trapped in moral idealism and utopian thinking. I think that’s exactly the dilemma behind my question:

How much is progressivism backfiring? Should the movement stop or should it change to a new strategy before it ends up doing more harm than good?

On the one hand, you’re right that not everything about progressivism is stupid. Certain progressive ideas are genuinely important and resonate with people — healthcare, unions, climate, fair taxation, etc. But as you said, it’s about how those ideas are presented: with intelligence, proportion, and strategy, rather than just moralizing or selling pipe-dreams.

I get that progressives too often default to moral purity, purity tests, or culture-war distractions instead of crafting persuasive, pragmatic messaging that gets people onboard. That tendency has arguably made it easier for Trump and MAGA to win.

So maybe the real answer isn’t for progressives to stop, but to pivot: keep their best ideas, but ground them in practical strategy and messaging that unites people against oligarchy, instead of alienating them with utopian moralizing. Of course, if they don’t, they risk sabotaging their own movement and unintentionally empowering Trump again.

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

 

So maybe the real answer isn’t for progressives to stop, but to pivot: keep their best ideas, but ground them in practical strategy and messaging that unites people against oligarchy, instead of alienating them with utopian moralizing. Of course, if they don’t, they risk sabotaging their own movement and unintentionally empowering Trump again.

 

Not only did this not happen, it was the opposite. Progressives repeatedly warned neoliberals they were empowering right wing populism and Trump, and were ignored but proven right. Examples being,

Progressives criticized trade deals like NAFTA and supported movements like occupy Wall Street, neoliberals supported the deals and crushed occupy. The result of this was a hollowing out of the rural white working class and growth in their skepticism of economic elites creating a vacuum filled by right wing populist movements which trump later exploited.

Progressives were against Hillary Clinton being the nominee claiming she represented the establishment which working class voters disliked, and was herself an extremely unpopular politician. The neoliberals backed Hillary to victory and she lost to trump, partially because of many Obama to Trump voters in swing states.

Progressives were also against Biden for the same reason, however lost again and Biden ran but won, however progressives later wanted him to be a one term President with New Democratic primaries, neoliberals again got their way and the primary was essentially cancelled with Biden running again. However Biden revealed how degraded he was at the presidential debate and was forced to drop out, now much later in the primary damaging any new candidate.

Progressives again were mixed on Kamala Harris being the candidate, as she bombed the last dem primary not even making it to get votes and didn’t seem particularly popular or charismatic. They argued Kamala should signal a more anti-establishment bend such as distancing herself from Biden and pledging to condition arm sales to israel. Again they didn’t get their way and instead Kamala declared she’d do nothing differently than Biden, not only refused to say she would condition arm sales but actually campaigned with Liz Cheney, someone deeply hated by not only progressives but also independents and conservatives after she turned on trump. Some progressives also pushed for Kamala to take a more pro union stance and to reach out to independents and young men by going on popular podcasts that invited her on such as Joe Rogan, Flagrant, Theo Von, Lex Fridman. Again neoliberals got their way and ignored this suggestion and Kamala did none of this, the largest Union the teamsters President said Kamala refused to signal she’d do anything different and instead vaguely threatened them,  so they didn’t endorse her and he spoke at the RNC, Trump went on the podcasts and got probably hundreds of millions in free media. Kamala lost by worse margins than Hillary Clinton.

Edited by Raze

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19 hours ago, Raze said:

Not only did this not happen, it was the opposite. Progressives repeatedly warned neoliberals they were empowering right wing populism and Trump, and were ignored but proven right. Examples being,

Progressives criticized trade deals like NAFTA and supported movements like occupy Wall Street, neoliberals supported the deals and crushed occupy. The result of this was a hollowing out of the rural white working class and growth in their skepticism of economic elites creating a vacuum filled by right wing populist movements which trump later exploited.

Progressives were against Hillary Clinton being the nominee claiming she represented the establishment which working class voters disliked, and was herself an extremely unpopular politician. The neoliberals backed Hillary to victory and she lost to trump, partially because of many Obama to Trump voters in swing states.

Progressives were also against Biden for the same reason, however lost again and Biden ran but won, however progressives later wanted him to be a one term President with New Democratic primaries, neoliberals again got their way and the primary was essentially cancelled with Biden running again. However Biden revealed how degraded he was at the presidential debate and was forced to drop out, now much later in the primary damaging any new candidate.

Progressives again were mixed on Kamala Harris being the candidate, as she bombed the last dem primary not even making it to get votes and didn’t seem particularly popular or charismatic. They argued Kamala should signal a more anti-establishment bend such as distancing herself from Biden and pledging to condition arm sales to israel. Again they didn’t get their way and instead Kamala declared she’d do nothing differently than Biden, not only refused to say she would condition arm sales but actually campaigned with Liz Cheney, someone deeply hated by not only progressives but also independents and conservatives after she turned on trump. Some progressives also pushed for Kamala to take a more pro union stance and to reach out to independents and young men by going on popular podcasts that invited her on such as Joe Rogan, Flagrant, Theo Von, Lex Fridman. Again neoliberals got their way and ignored this suggestion and Kamala did none of this, the largest Union the teamsters President said Kamala refused to signal she’d do anything different and instead vaguely threatened them,  so they didn’t endorse her and he spoke at the RNC, Trump went on the podcasts and got probably hundreds of millions in free media. Kamala lost by worse margins than Hillary Clinton.

You're repeating left-wing talking points that already been said on this forum a number of times.

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I don't feel a need to control progressive messaging other than to tell them to stop demonzing centerists and establishment Dems because that ends up helping conservatives win.

The big mistake progressives make is when they spread the idea that centrist Dems are the same or worse than conservatives. This is not true.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't feel a need to control progressive messaging other than to tell them to stop demonzing centerists and establishment Dems because that ends up helping conservatives win.

The big mistake progressives make is when they spread the idea that centrist Dems are the same or worse than conservatives. This is not true.

Agreed: “centrists = GOP” harms the coalition. My plan is credit + demand: praise real wins, push for more, keep sharp contrasts to primaries, and close with unity in generals. That’s leverage without handing victories to the right.

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