Is There a Genocide in Gaza?

[samijiben]

57 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Im not sure how i have been finger pointing, but the fact that your unwilling to say wether you have an affilliation with Israel or not, means that it might be relevant to your motivation for starting this thread. Gaza is being destroyed left right and centre. What difference will it make wether its labelled as genocide or not. Was the Holocaust really bad or just bad ? Can you see how this discussion is a little bit insulting to the suffering happening right now ?

Dear Wilhelm, my South African Buddy,

I will not argue with you. I am asking a question. You are making accusation of the genuineness of the place from which I ask that question.

Can't you see how that can be a bit insulting?

Any way, as you noted, it does not matter whether or not it is a genocide, but nothing matters, so that is a shite argument. Perhaps we should close this thread.

 

 

 

 

[Wilhelm44]

12 minutes ago, samijiben said:

Dear Wilhelm, my South African Buddy,

I will not argue with you. I am asking a question. You are making accusation of the genuineness of the place from which I ask that question.

Can't you see how that can be a bit insulting?

Any way, as you noted, it does not matter whether or not it is a genocide, but nothing matters, so that is a shite argument. Perhaps we should close this thread.

 

 

 

 

I did not accuse you. I simply said that if you do have an affiliation with Israel, then it MIGHT have played a role in your motivation for this thread. 

 

[Wilhelm44]

But I don't understand your unwillingness to say whether you have a connection with Israel or not. 

[samijiben]

Yes, I do have a connection with Israel. I have an equally strong connection to Palestine. For all I know, they could be the same place. 

My motivation for this thread was to answer the question that is the topic of this thread.

Is Israel commiting genocide in Gaza?

@Wilhelm44

 

[Wilhelm44]

3 minutes ago, samijiben said:

Yes, I do have a connection with Israel. I have an equally strong connection to Palestine. For all I know, they could be the same place. 

My motivation for this thread was to answer the question that is the topic of this thread.

Is Israel commiting genocide in Gaza?

@Wilhelm44

 

"Genocide is the intentional destruction, in whole or in part, of a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group."

There's basically nothing left standing in Gaza.

What do you think is happening there ?

[samijiben]

16 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

"Genocide is the intentional destruction, in whole or in part, of a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group."

There's basically nothing left standing in Gaza.

What do you think is happening there ?

I don't know.

[Wilhelm44]

2 minutes ago, samijiben said:

I don't know.

What causes you any doubt ?

[samijiben]

1 hour ago, Wilhelm44 said:

What causes you any doubt ?

I am doubtless.

[Wilhelm44]

49 minutes ago, samijiben said:

I am doubtless.

I meant doubting whether this is a genocide or not

[Wilhelm44]

@samijiben   How could this possibly be viewed as not being a genocide ?

All the evidence points to it being just that.

Edited June 25 by Wilhelm44

[PurpleTree]

Why is the terminology so important?

If let’s say i was a judge i would give the same amount of years as punishment for all those killings. Whether it can be labelled genocide or not. Or no?

[PurpleTree]

15 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Why is the terminology so important?

If let’s say i was a judge i would give the same amount of years as punishment for all those killings. Whether it can be labelled genocide or not. Or no?

Or is it because genocide is more like a very planned meticulous thing aka premeditated murder and the other is more like manslaughter go with the flow kind of thing?

[samijiben]

6 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

@samijiben   How could this possibly be viewed as not being a genocide ?

All the evidence points to it being just that.

That was the purpose of this thread: to answer your question. 

I am open to considering the possibility that it is indeed a genocide. Are you open to considering the possibility that it is not?

[Wilhelm44]

7 hours ago, samijiben said:

That was the purpose of this thread: to answer your question. 

I am open to considering the possibility that it is indeed a genocide. Are you open to considering the possibility that it is not?

The whole place is practically destroyed, what evidence is there to suggest otherwise ? Are you willing to consider the possibility that the holocaust was bad but not too bad. The framing here seems to be just as rediculous.

Edited June 26 by Wilhelm44

[samijiben]

1 hour ago, Wilhelm44 said:

The whole place is practically destroyed, what evidence is there to suggest otherwise ? Are you willing to consider the possibility that the holocaust was bad but not too bad. The framing here seems to be just as rediculous.

It's now about downplaying the reality of what's happening. It's about seeing if it conforms to the definition of genocide. 

[Wilhelm44]

25 minutes ago, samijiben said:

It's now about downplaying the reality of what's happening. It's about seeing if it conforms to the definition of genocide. 

What makes you think that there's a possibility that it doesn't conform to the definition of genocide ?

[Wilhelm44]

Is there really any evidence to suggest that it's not a genocide ?

[samijiben]

56 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

What makes you think that there's a possibility that it doesn't conform to the definition of genocide?

Dear Sir Wilhelm of South Africa,

Genocide has a specific meaning. The UN defines it as acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Hamas — the stated target of Israel’s war — is NOT such a group. It’s a militant, ideological organization, not a race, ethnicity, or religion. If you're eliminating a military threat, that’s brutal war, not necessarily genocide.

Another reason is that Israel is not trying to starve Palestinians. Israel has sent more than 1.3 million tons of aid since the war began (more than any other nation has). That doesn't exactly scream "We want to wipe you off the map." Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Is the aid enough? Arguably no. But it shows some level of effort to not commit genocide. You would be hard-pressed to make the case that this is all a show to "save face."

Also, this war was triggered, not premeditated. Before Oct 7, Israel was pretty much disengaged from Gaza. Hamas crossed a line with that attack. It was an unprovoked, horrific massacre of civilians. Israel’s military response, whatever you think of it, is rooted in self-defense logic, not extermination. Their goal is stated clearly: eliminate Hamas’s capability to repeat such attacks.

If genocide were the goal, Gaza would look a lot more like a parking lot by now. With the firepower Israel has, if their intent were to truly wipe out Palestinians, there would be no hospitals, no aid convoys, no evacuation leaflets, etc. Doesn’t this suggest at least some intent to distinguish between civilians and combatants?

 

 

Edited June 26 by samijiben
Typo

[Wilhelm44]

19 minutes ago, samijiben said:

Dear Sir Wilhelm of South Africa,

Genocide has a specific meaning. The UN defines it as acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Hamas — the stated target of Israel’s war — is NOT such a group. It’s a militant, ideological organization, not a race, ethnicity, or religion. If you're eliminating a military threat, that’s brutal war, not necessarily genocide.

Another reason is that Israel is not trying to starve Palestinians. Israel has sent more than 1.3 million tons of aid since the war began (more than any other nation has). That doesn't exactly scream "We want to wipe you off the map." Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Is the aid enough? Arguably no. But it shows some level of effort to not commit genocide. You would be hard-pressed to make the case that this is all a show to "save face."

Also, this war was triggered, not premeditated. Before Oct 7, Israel was pretty much disengaged from Gaza. Hamas crossed a line with that attack. It was an unprovoked, horrific massacre of civilians. Israel’s military response, whatever you think of it, is rooted in self-defense logic, not extermination. Their goal is stated clearly: eliminate Hamas’s capability to repeat such attacks.

If genocide were the goal, Gaza would look a lot more like a parking lot by now. With the firepower Israel has, if their intent were to truly wipe out Palestinians, there would be no hospitals, no aid convoys, no evacuation leaflets, etc. Doesn’t this suggest at least some intent to distinguish between civilians and combatants?

 

 

Well, thank you for finally being honest with your point of view.

Firstly let me just say, that I actually have a much closer connection with Israel than with Palestine. So I feel I'm looking at the evidence quite objectively.

Oct 7th was horrific. 

But come on, if you look at the aerial images of Gaza, their target definitely was not just Hamas.

Not sure how Gaza doesn't already look like a parking lot to you right now.

Bibi clearly thought to himself, fuck it, lets kill them all.

Do you really think Bibi would have sent aid if the world weren't watching ?

 

[Wilhelm44]

"The UN estimates that approximately 92 per cent of all residential buildings in Gaza – around 436,000 homes – have been damaged or destroyed since the start of the conflict." - dated 22 Apr 2025.

I'm not going to post the images of devastation here, they are easy to find on the internet.

But I think the evidence is overwhelming that there was basically zero intent to distinguish between civilians and Hamas.

@samijiben