How to make her obsessed

[Nilsi]

On 21.2.2025 at 8:21 PM, Emerald said:

The issue with shame is that you can't improve yourself or fix yourself to get rid of it.

The only antidote to shame is unconditional self-love and unconditional acceptance on the level of being. And that does reliably resolve the shame... even though it can be a difficult and drawn out process.

So, pickup will never be a solution to shame. And any type of self-improvement will always be 100% ineffective at addressing shame.

Any kind of action towards self-improvement that's taken from the attempt to relieve one's self of shame, will only exacerbate the shame issue. And the higher the standards you place upon yourself to accept yourself, the more intense your shame will become.

So, there is a reliable way to resolve shame. That's to find ways to accept yourself no matter what... and to never use pick-up or any other form of self-improvement for the sake of getting away from shame... as that will only exacerbate it.

Instead, try to switch to a more experiential process-based motivation for the actions you take.

So, instead of thinking about pick-up or any other form of self-improvement from a desire to improve or fix yourself or become better to get validation... think about it more as things you're doing to enhance your own amusement and enjoyment of the process of life.

See yourself as already valid and valuable... and make decisions from a place of self-love and a desire to give yourself the best experience possible. 

Take action from a place of being like a kid who doesn't want to miss out on Disney World.

So, if you wanted to do pick-up, think about it from a place of already being whole, valid, and valuable as you are. And interact with women from a place of self-enjoyment because you love yourself.

And don't approach pick-up from a place of "I need to change myself and fix myself because I'm not enough as I am to get female validation via sex and sexual interest. And I need female validation because attractive women are the arbiters who have the power to judge me as sufficiently or insufficiently Masculine... and therefore worthy or unworthy of being. And who I am isn't enough to be notarized as valid by these attractive women, so I need to learn all these techniques and improve myself to become enough (or pretend to be enough in the case of men who lack self-efficacy in conjunction with their shame struggles.)

I rarely see guys on this forum who are interested in pick-up from a place of self-amusement, fun, and pleasure. Probably 90% of the time, it's guys who don't feel enough trying to use pick-up to improve themselves to try to make themselves enough.

And even if a guy gets good at pick-up, this will never resolve that shame. He'll just transfer it onto the women that sleep with him. And he'll devalue them because "If they like me, they must not be worthy".

Like Mark Twain said "I wouldn't belong to a club that would have me."

This is so true, and most men don’t grasp this principle because they’re too stuck in "logic." They have a psychological meltdown when they see a guy who is objectively “unattractive” get a hot girl - just because he’s not trapped in his head, obsessing over his inadequacy.

There’s an incredible documentary about the infamous incel Elliot Rodger, who became so consumed by this self-denying cycle of “fixing himself” to lose his virginity that he completely lost his mind, spiraling into a violent killing spree before taking his own life - all while being, by any objective standard, above-average in looks. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYMcymxoyh0

This is actually a profound metaphor for life itself and directly ties into what Nietzsche and Deleuze critique about Western metaphysics - its obsession with negation, lack, and self-denial. Thinkers like Hegel and Lacan emphasize a fundamental irreconcilable lack, whereas a philosophy of affirmation and overflowing sees desire not as deficit, but as a force of creation. The Western mind, trapped in lack, is never satisfied - always postponing joy, always seeking to “fix” itself rather than simply being.

I see this every day in sales - colleagues working themselves into exhaustion, perfecting their tonality, pitch, and delivery, grinding 60-hour weeks only to face rejection after rejection. Meanwhile, I just pick up the phone from a state of openness - and I’ve hit President’s Club two years in a row (sorry, weird flex, I know). The principle holds across all domains: the more you force, the more you repel. The more you allow, the more you attract. 

Of course, there’s a natural pull toward self-improvement and mastery, and I’m very much invested in that. But it comes from a place of already being enough - not from trying to fill some void, but from overflowing with excess that has to spend itself.

[Emerald]

29 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

This is so true, and most men don’t grasp this principle because they’re too stuck in "logic." They have a psychological meltdown when they see a guy who is objectively “unattractive” get a hot girl - just because he’s not trapped in his head, obsessing over his inadequacy.

There’s an incredible documentary about the infamous incel Elliot Rodger, who became so consumed by this self-denying cycle of “fixing himself” to lose his virginity that he completely lost his mind, spiraling into a violent killing spree before taking his own life - all while being, by any objective standard, above-average in looks. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYMcymxoyh0

This is actually a profound metaphor for life itself and directly ties into what Nietzsche and Deleuze critique about Western metaphysics - its obsession with negation, lack, and self-denial. Thinkers like Hegel and Lacan emphasize a fundamental irreconcilable lack, whereas a philosophy of affirmation and overflowing sees desire not as deficit, but as a force of creation. The Western mind, trapped in lack, is never satisfied - always postponing joy, always seeking to “fix” itself rather than simply being.

I see this every day in sales - colleagues working themselves into exhaustion, perfecting their tonality, pitch, and delivery, grinding 60-hour weeks only to face rejection after rejection. Meanwhile, I just pick up the phone from a state of openness - and I’ve hit President’s Club two years in a row (sorry, weird flex, I know). The principle holds across all domains: the more you force, the more you repel. The more you allow, the more you attract. 

Of course, there’s a natural pull toward self-improvement and mastery, and I’m very much invested in that. But it comes from a place of already being enough - not from trying to fill some void, but from overflowing with excess that has to spend itself.

100% 

Shame is an unfortunately common motivator for people's actions. And it keeps people on a hamster wheel of never feeling enough... but instead trying to become enough before they can truly live.

[The Renaissance Man]

10 hours ago, Emerald said:

And I just notice that most guys who get into pick-up that I've interacted with and worked with are unconsciously doing so to get away from shame by matching up to a particular standard of Masculinity... and being good with women is just a requirement to match up to that Masculine standard. This is why the pick-up community tends to be a magnet for guys who deal with this shame dynamic.

So, pick-up (and other forms of self-improvement and/or attempts to increase Masculinity) often are approached from a place of shame and attempting to fix one's self. 

I don't know, I feel like men who get into pick-up are almost completely there because they just can't get attract any women. And not because of a masculine ideal.

Not saying there's no shame, actually, there's plenty of it, but I feel it rarely manifests as getting into pick-up as a common coping strategy. That's pretty specific, and pretty hard as well. If a man has no trouble getting women, he may be very insecure in general still, but I feel he won't get into pick-up.

I feel the reason is much more direct instead: a solution for being sexually starved. That's ultimately why it has so much appeal and traction (it's still very very niche though). "Influencers" may mask talking about it as masculinity standards (possibly to justify it to themselves too), but most don't feel compelled to be masculine through pick-up. When thinking about masculinity that's not what comes to mind. What comes to mind is a much broader idea, of confidence, strength, leadership, money, women in general, not exclusively cold-approaching them.

So I agree about what you said about masculinity standards that aren't challenged, leading to suppressing the feminine side and insecurity about the current self, but I disagree in it being the main driver for why people get into pick-up, by far. The main driver is, in my opinion, sheer sexual starvation.

[whh2222]

this thread title is lame. so ill assume the content of the thread itself is lame.