Heart of Space

Or, you know, it could just give us a realistic expectation about how society may look after the issues of systemic oppression are resolved. It could be legitimately more important than you think.

My god your posts are of some serious quality. Like the meta game being played here with this post. If finite Leo could see it from my perspective you would shit yourself with laughter. All hail the higher being of Actualized.org

Notice how you erroneously assume the default position is environmental factors. It's accepted that intelligence is mostly heritable, meaning 55 to 80 percent genetic. It would follow that a gap in intelligence between individuals, groups, races, or ethnicities could be partially explained by genetics as a percentage of a whole of all causes, including environmental factors. Think a pie chart of causal factors. If you can't even acknowledge that, then you can't even begin to have a conversation on the subject.

If that position is right wing, I guess. Still pretty moderate left.

Don't say 'we' when you speak for yourself. People actually are arguing for zero genetic inferiority between races for intelligence. No one, I come to this conclusion on my own because it's blatantly obvious based on all the current evidence and our understanding of genetics and evolution.

Did you just get here, skim one or two posts and write that? Why consider responding when you have nothing substantive to say?

@Lews Therin Is there a genetic component to intelligence at all? Are all human attributes based on genetics, but the very moment we get to the brain all of a sudden it's this thing completely existing in a vacuum of purely environmental variables in terms of what shapes it's qualities? If there is a measurable intelligence gap between genetic populations, would it not be extraordinarily obvious to consider the possibility that a portion of that gap is explained by genes? It's as if none of you even consider the possibility that even 0.5% of that gap is explained by genes. The genetic explanation is extremely plausible and I believe that you guys do not consider it because it conflicts with the anti-racist utopian fantasy you have about reality.

Guys, cool the constant ad hominem attacks for your own sake. You're only burning yourself by getting upset. It basically just makes you look emotional and biased when all you have is some form of "you're an idiot" as a response.

You hate science. You're being so difficult lol

Publicly they have, there's a huge political component to academia. But I almost guarantee you there are many geneticists that share my opinion privately in within certain circles.

It does if there is a measurable difference in a metric that undoubtedly has a genetic component. Case in point. I can write you guys your science article and spell it out with simple easy to follow steps, definitions, and link studies to substantiate each scientific claim in the future I'd you'd like.

This is going to get really hard for you to deny when I get a clear moment to spell it out for those who are having trouble getting this. Just be patient. This is a highly politicized topic. That statement is completely unsubstantiated and is in denial of what the highest level understanding of science tells us.

@Leo Gura 5 second Google search Leo. (See image) You may want to dig a little on this subject. There's a lot of assumptions that you have which are false. If you need me to, I can do a real post with sources too. Right, now I must go to bed.

I'm not really getting what you're putting down. Especially when you say absurd stuff like this. Blacks have many physical attributes that are publicly accepted as essentially 100% genetic that are different. Height, type 1 muscle fiber prevalence, dick size, bone density, hormone content, and on and on. We only have an issue when it comes to intelligence metrics. All of a sudden it's hateful to suggest that it's a genetic deficiency. It's an obvious double standard we have in society.

@Thought Art There's a pretty fundamental argument in this thread that I have already made earlier in regards to differences in aggregate qualities in genetics populations. Either you comprehend the what I have already wrote, or I don't respond. And yes a black individual, like Obama, can have better genetics for intelligence than 99% of all people.

Nutrition differences most certainly do not account for 100% of the difference in intelligence between Americans and Japanese. Just pretend that there is a pie chart of all the variables, nutrition being one part. Genes play a role here too, probably also cultural and behavioral differences surrounding academics. Although, I'd argue adopting more disciplined cultural norms in general is a symptom of innate higher intelligence, probably due to superior genes.

No, but they certainly do say that the intellectual capacity of the different races are equal and that all differences are explainable due to historical and environmental explanations. This is the very thesis I am disputing, so please understand that. You should ask yourself when you see and interact with a person that is clearly much less intelligent then you, what is the first explanation you go to? Do you wonder about their nutrition? Do you ponder the bad values and behaviors that have been passed to them over generations? Maybe you do, but regardless everyone immediately goes to genetics as an explanation with zero apprehension. When it comes to individuals we have no problem at all attributing poor intellect to genetics. But when we start grouping large genetic populations all of a sudden any talk of genetics being a significant factor becomes taboo. It's obvious Leo, genes play a massive role in all of your attributes, especially intelligence. The brain and all it's qualities is an organ governed by genetics. It'd be odd if we could attribute the ratio of type 1 to type 2 muscle fiber primarily to genetics, yet magically due to personal feelings being hurt the biochemical reality of genes just simply stop working inside of the skull. All of a sudden due to the political nature of the topic the qualities of a brain are only governed by neuroplasticity and all the environmental factors that shape it. Funny, it would be the single and only organ that worked that way.

Women should have to wear burkas in the forums.

Go look at aggregate values and compare where you're at in your state and or country. That would be the best indicator. If your a single male, look up income percentile by age. Savings by age, net worth by age, so on... Otherwise you're going to get a lot of personal opinions, which can be biased or based off of ignorance.

The number of people that complain about the completely reasonable 40 hour work week is shocking. Must be a bunch of lazy people that have zero discipline in life and don't understand what's needed for an economic system to grow and progress. Naive and petulant whiny-ness. Wants to live in a comfortable technological wonder, yet only has the drive to work an easy 32 hour job every week. Life is built on sacrifices, so are great countries and economies.

I wonder who is really lost.

At work, but I'd like to say thank you for reopening the thread. It was the correct choice. I intend to reply to all the good rebuttals and points made since I last posted. I'm at work, so please be patient. Edit: there's a few half decent points made. Just to show I'm of good faith I'll even help your arguments by steel manning them when I respond.

Ironically, you just posted a great criticism. I disagree. There is political divisiveness and this subject informs a lot of policy suggestions and implementation in regards to racial equality in this country. It informs a sense of entitlement to economic resources. @mr_engineer It's a difficult topic. No topic should be off limits. There is a massive amount of racial shadow in this country. It all needs to be vetted out and the truth needs to be seen and accepted.

@mr_engineer There's a legitimate reason. @Tyler Robinson It seems you have nothing of substance to add, perhaps just observe rather than post asinine comments? @thepixelmonk African Americans score lower than European Americans on vocabulary, reading, and math tests, as well as on tests that claim to measure scholastic aptitude and intelligence. It's not just IQ testing. It's every academic and intelligence metric available. They're inferior everywhere. Just google it yourself and be free of your illusion.

I gave you a few really great and easy starting points for your own research. It would take you 10 minutes to look up IQ by race, or GDP by country for example. Don't ask me to do your own work for you. I can only point the way.