Forestluv

I can be very logical and get into intellectual debates. One thing that sets me off are arguments with absolute truth. Yet, the other person generally gets upset and sees me as an uncaring ass. I'm left scratching my head asking how I could have communicated better. Case in point: my gf sends me a video on Andrea Yates she shows as an example of compassion for her clients. Yates suffered from severe untreated postpartum depression for years and then killed her five children in 2001. In the video, doctors believed she now had a healthy mind. So, I ask my gf if she thinks Yates should be released and she responds "No" and goes off about personal responsibility. . . Assuming Yates was "psychotic" during the murder and that she now has a "sane" mind, *who* committed those murders? Assuming Yates is no longer a threat to others, why continue punishing her? . . . Well, this didn't go over well with my gf who thought I was taking the side of criminals and murderers. If someone takes multiple lives, their life should pretty much be over. . . To push it to the edge of her black-white perspective I asked "What if a woman's drink was spiked with PCP at a party and she went psychotic and killed multiple people? Should her life be pretty much over?". My gfs response was simply that people should take responsibility for their actions. I said that sometimes there are grey areas, to which she responded "grey shmey" and called me lame for not taking a stand. I'm more concerned about my communication skills than who is "right" or "wrong". She left upset thinking I'm a lame criminal sympathizer and I find myself writing that I can get hyper logical at times. Last night I watched Leo's video on Spiral Dynamics. I'm curious if this is a case where someone cannot understand a higher consciousness level. Absolute truth and black-white thinking is characteristic of the blue stage, while shades of grey and egalitarian is toward greenish. How would one communicate effectively? Bite my tongue and just listen to understand her? Change the topic? At best, I think I was in a green state (since I still believed I had the higher evolved view). How would a yellow communicate?

When I started learning Spanish, I joined an online “90 day challenge” group. We each set study time and progress goals. We held each other accountable by updating an online progress sheet. Many people set their goals too high and burned out. My goals were high, yet reasonable. The problem was, after two weeks it felt like work. I HAD to do it. My fascination with language and culture got zapped. My joy of learning flatlined. All obligation and checking into work. I quit the group and my zest returned.

Perhaps it's better to say I understand the English words, yet don't "get it" beyond the words. It is not my direct experience that my waking life is a dream. I experience it as if it was real. Similar to the phrase "You are not the body". I understand the words, yet my direct experience is still that the body is part of "I". I have had a few glimpses of the deeper meaning, yet it hasn't stuck.

Many people I consider to be high-conscious put forth the notion that our waking life is also a dream. I can conceptualize the idea, yet I still don't "get it" at a deeper level.

In split brain individuals, the left and right brain hemispheres do not communicate at all. It's interesting that these "individuals" can adopt different beliefs and personalities. For example, the right brain hemisphere could be atheist, while the left brain hemisphere is theist. To me, it highlights that the "true me" is not the thoughts, beliefs or self image.

I occasionally experience harmful impulses - only with people I really love. It makes me uncomfortable.

I don't understand the idea of "defeating the ego". It seems that just empowers the ego. For me, it's more about the awareness that the ego exists and is illusionary. And for me, the traditional concept of "understanding" is loaded with ego. This mysterious impersonal infinite consciousness seems beyond the traditional use of "understand". I suppose one could use the term in a novel way, yet at that point I'd prefer to use a new term to avoid confusion.

@Theplay Be mindful of trying to interpret and figure things out. It can be a distraction I often fall into. Was there awareness of the thoughts arising that questioned the meaning of the Zen quote?

@playdoh All these questions are the self trying to maintain control. I do the same thing. I've experienced both suffering and liberation. For me, when I started to earnestly question my beliefs and my true nature, there is no turning back. Once one realizes Santa Claus doesn't exit, you can't go back. Most evolved / enlightened people I've encountered are at peace, so I have hope the process won't lead to me being a suffering asshat that harms myself and others. But, I don't get to call the shots.

@Omario One cannot imagine a higher state of contagiousness they have never seen. It's like living your whole life within a city, then one day looking down on the city from a mountain top. An entirely different perspective.

There is a consciousness beyond the individual self here. It's like a higher level organism. . . I love the haunting "yooooou don't knoooooow. . . " Imagine one of the birds has a strong self identity and is consumed with thoughts about how he isn't good enough. He isn't big enough, his feathers aren't vibrant enough. Thoughts about how one neighbor smells bad and another tweets too much. Thoughts about how if he had just turned left before his life would be different. Worried about what the future will hold. . . And never to become aware that the true "he" is within a greater consciousness. Is my self willing to acknowledge and surrender to a greater consciousness?

@DocHoliday "In giving away the control, you got it. You have the kind of control you wanted. You have a loving relationship to the world, but you didn't have to make up your mind what it should do. You let it decide." Wow. I'm letting that sink in.

For sure. She generally operates on an emotional level, while I'm on a logical level. It's not like she is crying or screaming. Rather, she emotionally connects with child victims. It's interesting that she can't see the suffering of perpetrators. Acknowledging her position takes skill. Sometimes when I do that she says "yea, and you think your opinion is superior". I may try taking an interest in understanding her perspective - how it was shaped and how it is evolving. And just share my perspective if she asks. I'm a professor and talk a lot. I can overshare theories and concepts.

That sounds awfully yellow stage. . . At times I observe my behavior is motivated from self interest (to reduce fear, to be admired etc). Yet often I am just being - without concern or worry.

I've had some glimpses into nonduality, yet don't get the "there is no reality" thing. What is the definition of real? Are reality and existence different? How can one say something does not exist? My experience now seems like existence just "IS", while reality is my interpretation of existence. My story.

Ego is within nonduality, it is not separate. I suppose its fair to say an egocentric perspective is a dual perspective.

“you do not destroy what is ego and make it leave, you simply find a way to stop seeing the illusion of ego - the belief of it - you cease from being slave to it. “ Who is this “you” that stops seeing the illusion of the ego?

My biggest addiction is thinking, followed by internet

@Hintersfjall “So my question is, moving forward, how should I interact with her if I want to keep the idea of us getting back together one day alive? I definitely do not want to engage in any manipulative or shady behaviour that would negatively impact her current relationship.” It seems you want to maintain contact with the intention of getting back together, without it appearing like that. That is manipulating the situation. If you were truly ok with being just friends now, you would not be tied up in knots. Ive been in your situation. It was excruciating. She made her choice and you are not fit to be a friend right now. I would suggest no contact for three months, then see where you are at.

People look at me like I’m the devil if I start talking about the illusion of free will. . .

Professor. Genetics, Developmental Biology, Neuroscience. My research examines microbe-host interactions. A great job for an INTP

I’ve had the same question. If “I” am not the author of my thoughts, why would the mysterious source of thoughts create an antagonist to itself? Social programming?

My gf asks me what my “end game” for all the personal development is. Hard for me to explain there us no end game.

Do you think experience with a variety of other psychedics would be helpful in the 30mg range?

@Hira Athar I’m in a somewhat similiar situation. One thing I’m becoming aware of is that I’m the one that often stirs things up. For example, she mentioned how the Christian faith has helped one of her friends. I’m the one who escalated it by raising logical and moral inconsistencies in a Christian framework. How does one believe an anthropomorphic Christian god transmitted absolute morality through scripture that sanctions slavery, condemns homosexuality and and sentences adulturous wimen to death by stoning? If we cherry pick the moral parts, arent we then playing god by deciding which parts are moral and immoral. . . Well, this is the type of discusion better suited for my sangha than my gf. It never gies over well. . . So now, I am trying to compartmentalize my spiritual growth with my spiritual circle and not instigate with my gf. I’m curious how much of our strife us actually due to me stirring the pot.