Forestluv

@Aaron p To me it sounds like an odd storyline. I think it’s most beneficial to do the practices, observe and share one’s own actual direct experience and perhaps unpack it.

@Joshaps I’ve found that as I develop, my previous experiences get recontextualuzed. Some of my lowest moments have led to deep insights and eventually helped develop empathy and have become helpful to others, I think personal development and spiritual concepts are great, yet I’m not sensing much about grounding practices. I’ve found practices that ground me in the present moment really help with mental stability. For me, my top three grounding practices are: 1. Breathing. I prefer breathing exercises in kriya yoga and yin yoga. It was awkward at first, yet once I got through the initial begginner stage, it’s become a potent grounding tool. 2. Balancing postures in yoga. Balancing postures force the mind-body to be aware and attentive in the present moment. If the mind wanders, you fall. One cannot half-ass balance postures. Again, it can be a bit awkward at first, yet once you start getting it down it becomes absolutely amazing. The relationship between mind-body, ground, balance, strength, focus, stillness, effort and relaxation goe so deep. I was blown away. 3. Nature. Getting away from all the theory, memories, worries, human interactions etc. can help relax and clear the mind. Here, we don’t want to be worrying and thinking about stuff. Let all that go for a little while. When the mind-body is fully relaxed in nature and begins observing and being within nature, magnificence is revealed. You mention you would like to learn about nonduality. I can’t think of a better nonduality teacher than nature. It is the absolute best classroom. Observe the inter-relationships between insects, plants, animals, streams, rocks etc. They are all one system living in harmony, Let yourself go and allow yourself to connect and communicate with nature. Nature can be so gentle and forgiving. It is not judgemental or critical. I can go to depths in nature that I just can’t go with othet humans.

Yep. I think a lot of people don’t like the uncertainty of not knowing and make stuff up. Then the mind gets attached to it’s story and defends it. It’s a major block to expansion and discovery. I think memories are absolutely fascinating- in all sorts of realms. Physical and metaphysical- it’s all so fascinating.

I like this article in the sense that it challenges the dogmatic materialist view. At the collective conscious level, we are waaay too shifted toward the materialist view of cognition. Yet I see two main problems with this article. 1. It tries to use materialism to refute materialism. Aint gonna happen. Neuroscience is much more advanced within the material realm than armchair philosophers. It would be like me stepping into a ring with a black belt karate master. I don't know karate and my "spin moves" would look absolutely ridiculous. I would fall over. For example, the author tried to center his argument around an exercise he does with children. The child is asked to draw a dollar bill on the board and he draws a basic outline of a dollar bill. The teacher then tapes an actual dollar bill to the board and asks the child to draw another dollar bill. Of course, the child draws a much more detailed dollar bill. The author then concludes the brain is not like a computer because the child could not draw a detailed dollar bill without the picture. Noone is saying the brain IS a photographic camera or that the brain IS an actual computer. The analogy is that the brain is similar to a computer. He goes on to state: "A thousand years of neuroscience will never locate a representation of a dollar bill stored inside the human brain for the simple reason that it is not there to be found. The idea that memories are stored in individual neurons is preposterous: how and where is the memory stored in the cell?" He says scientists will never locate and actual representation of a dollar bill in the brain. First off, they might. There may be a physical thing in the brain representative of a dollar bill, who knows? He is using an argument from ignorance fallacy. People do this in religion all the time. Just because something is not detected and cannot be imagined by a mind does not mean it doesn't exist. 1,000 years is a looong time and our understanding of brain activity will be MUCH more advanced to the point we can't even imagine today. . . His second statement is wrong. We know that memories are correlated to the hippocampus. When a person is recalling memories, the hippocampus becomes active. When the hippocampus is inactivated, no memories arise. Perhaps "storage" is not the right word because it suggests a physical item being stored. Yet, there is clearly some type of association between the material hippocampus and the (likely) immaterial memory. There is plenty of research of computers decoding brain activity back into images. For example, people can watch a movie and a computer can decode brain activity back into the images of the movie. This is one form of a computer decoding a different language of another type of computer brain. There is an integration of the immaterial and material into holism. Taking one side or the other is a major block against deeper understanding. I think it is a big mistake to have a dualistic view and say the brain is either immaterial or material. It is both and neither. The immaterial is material and vice-versa. Once we get into this mindset, our progress and understanding will skyrocket. In terms of opposition to the materialist view, a much stronger argument resides in metaphysical realms. That is, nonduality. The brain resides in One nondual consciousness. Consciousness does not arise from a physical brain. The physical brain resides in consciousness. Yet again, this is a dualistic view of nonduality vs. duality. The deepest levels of understanding will integrate the two.

Whether it happened or not? Why can't it have happened and not have happened? Why must you make a decision between the two? Even quantum mechanics have demonstrated that a happening and it's opposite not happening can both be true.

@Zigzag Idiot Thank you. Yes, she is pointing in the right direction. It is still quite conceptual of various centers and how each functions. Yet, I think it is a great framework to develop post-intellectual modes of being. Yet, there comes a point in which one will develop beyond the conceptual framework. I liked how she describes exercises to develop nonverbal modes of being. I am currently developing these modes and I'm curious about her exercises. This is the type of are I think more and more humans will evolve into. Regarding Ocke de Boer, I agree that we have "blockages" in emotional and intuitive connections with others. Yet, I wouldn't frame it like him. I sense and underlying themes of healthy, unhealthy, purification of the unpure etc. I like his underlying theme, yet I think his value-based judgements are on the personal level and weigh down the trans-personal realm back into the personal. I would rephrase it more like "noise". Imagine you are in a restaurant with a friend and there is a lot of background noise. This noise will interfere with your ability to communicate and connect with your friend. Is the background noise "healthy" or "unhealthy" - well no, it's neither. Is the background noise something we need to "purify"? Not really. I'd say it's just something we need to be aware of and how it is interfering with communication and connection. We may want to adjust our mode of conversation or move to a quieter location. I think Boer's approach will trigger responses at the personal level of what is "healthy" and "unhealthy". At the personal level, the mind has a huge amount of conditioning about "healthy/unhealthy", "good/bad", "pure/impure" etc. This just adds another layer of stuff a person has to work through. A second problem I see with this is that it becomes limited. I've had many "healthy" things that were distractions from higher evolution. For example, suppose the background noise was amazing jazz music. Is this "healthy" or "unhealthy"? It's not really either. It's "good" for the people listening to the music and "bad" for the people trying to converse and connect with each other. After reading over her page, I'm now contemplating whether my post regarding opposites is limited to thinking. My sense is no. I think the intellectual mode is highly conditioned to think in opposites, yet these opposites are also operative in other modes. For example, while hiking in Sedona, I noticed Prickly Pear Cacti. They had beautiful "healthy" green cacti parts and ugly "unhealthy" degradation parts. At first glance there was an emotional attraction to the "healthy" green parts and an emotional repulsion from the "unhealthy" dying parts. No thoughts were needed. It was a purely emotional response due to mind-body conditioning. I later read a signpost that said the blackish dying parts were a collection of bacteria and fungi living in a symbiotic relationship with the Cacti. This relationship was important for the health of the larger symbiotic organism as well as the more expansive ecosystem. This totally shifted my emotional energetic system. There was no longer opposites. I know emotionally experienced one beautiful organism. I even got on my hands and knees to appreciate it's beauty. How opposition relates to intuition is a much more difficult area for me to get in touch with. I do appreciate your link on intuition and I will work more in this area. @now is forever Your comments about chocolate desires and conditioning gave me pause to contemplate. I can see how prior conditioning can influence an emotional desire. Now I'm not sure if the example I gave of desiring chocolate (without thought) is more on the emotional or intuitive frequency. It's much easier to distinguish the intellect from emotional and intuitive. Much harder to distinguish between emotional and intuitive. My sense is that yes, intuition would have a prior conditioning component, yet can also have a component independent of prior conditioning. It's more like being on a certain frequency of energy in the moment. My skills are more developed in this area, yet my gf is highly developed in this area. For example, last week we were driving on the highway. We were having a nice conversation and she suddenly said "Something is wrong ahead". I asked her what it was and she said she didn't know but it was really bad. We drove another ten minutes and saw traffic ahead. She then said "There was an accident and someone died". I asked how she knew this and she said she just does. Intuition or feeling or something. She started shaking and had needed to do deep breathing to settle her body down. About ten minutes later, we could see flashing lights of police cars and ambulance. Another 20 minutes later we see the car and it was absolutely demolished. You couldn't even tell it was a car. And it turns out the man in the car died. . . How was she able to pick up "something is wrong ahead" before there was any indication that anything was wrong. There was no traffic or anything. The accident may not have even happened yet. What type of previous conditioning could have influenced this intuition. She does this a lot. She just picks up on vibes and knows stuff. It's like she has a 6th sense. Like she can "see" stuff other people can't. I'm well-developed in the empathetic mode and I can pick up on this ability of hers. Sometimes it makes me feel really uncomfortable, like she has a super-power and doesn't quite know how to use it. I get a little freaked out sometimes that she could shift into a nefarious mode.

Why can't it be both?

@Sharp If you want to go to absolute truth, be cautious here. Labeling something as deception is relative. Everything you wrote about is within relativity. You don't get to claim absolute by using relative tools. To enter the realm of the absolute, one must surrender the labeling of both deception and not deception. Within the relative human level, what you wrote makes a lot of sense and has practical value. Yet, you don't get to claim universal truth. In this realm what you wrote has no more relevance than a bird chirp.

@noselfnofun Along the Y axis of Now, memories are impulses appearing Now. Along the X axis of the timeline construct, memories are representations of previous events. Yet, memories are not always “accurate”. There are many different ways to interpret life events and the mind often edits, deletes and adds in stuff to previous events. I’m not sure what you mean be the term “illusion”.

I think you are describing a really important aspect of direct experience which is key. Few people understand it and as you say, direct experience is key. It is not something that can be theorized or scientifically proven. I'm totally comfortable in that domain. I think the view you are presenting is tied a bit much to thoughts. Thoughts dominant our perception and sense of being. It is possible to exist without thought. I've gone 10 minutes or so without thought. There are other impulses in my mind-body, just no thoughts. So if I am hiking in nature without thought, is anything "real"? Is realness dependent on thoughts? To me, thought is just one mode of being. There are lots of other modes, yet thoughts love to dominate. Consider this situation: Last week I was on a plane in a thoughtless state of consciousness. There was simply awareness without thought. There was an appearance of a flight attendant carrying a box filled with four different items: Cookies, Pretzels and Peanuts. Within my mind-body a desire for cookies arose. There was an awareness of this desire and my hand pointed to the cookie packages. The flight attendant then handed me a package of cookies. Smiles arose. My mind-body then knew to open the package and place the cookie in my mouth and chew. Then the first thought arose in my mind: "This is so yummy". During that whole process, not a single thought arose. Other modes of being were operative such as intuition. I would say that the events without thought that arose were real. There was a real desire for cookies that arose, yet there was no thought to validate that desire such as "I want cookies". There is realness independent of thoughts. Thoughts are within realness, yet not necessary for realness. From a dualistic perspective of "outside" and "inside" I would agree.

@theking00 Be careful with the belief that there is a place outside the matrix. The mind loves to create a story about how the matrix is a struggle and how there is a place outside the matrix that is peaceful. Humans may seek that place their entire life only to find it doesn't exist outside of the place they already reside.

Ahhh, wonderful questions. The screen metaphor is so so juicy and fun to unpack. This screen metaphor goes beyond the "observer + object" stage, yet includes both observer and object. As you picked up on, it includes both absolute and relative. I consider it to be a metaphor that seems deceptively simple. Yet it is very deep. Let's first consider stages and consider the relative and absolute as separate. The first stage is awareness of objects reveals itself. There is detached awareness that does not identify with any object. This awareness does not give meaning to any object or happening. If meaning is assigned to an object or meaning, awareness is aware of that yet is still detached from that meaning assignment. Here, objects include all things such as trees, pencils, sounds, feelings, thoughts etc. If a thought arises, there is awareness of that thought, yet it has no more relevance than a bird chirp. The thoughts might be "My neighboor is so annoying" and the body may feel irritated. Again, there is detached awareness that there are thoughts, meaning and feelings arising - yet as awareness has no more relevance than a bird chirp. One trap at the personal level is to identify as being the "observer". Thoughts and beliefs such as "I am observing my thoughts" is indicative of identification with awareness. In Spira's analogy it would be like identifying as a person in the theater watching the movie. As detached as this observer may be, there is still separation. One way out of this dynamic is when awareness of the observer (person watching the movie) is revealed. Yet then again, a mind can identify as being the observer of the observer. Then there is awareness of the observer of the observer - which is then identified with it. There is a threshold in which there are so many awareness of observer levels that it becomes infinite and collapses into simply awareness. Spira is going one step further into nonduality. In the above video he is trying to pull the women a half-step. Yet she isn't ready for even a half-step - it is actually a big step. . . So here we venture into nonduality, but it is important to note we are not rejecting duality. Integrating the two is a further step which we will address in a bit. . . Imagine the movie playing on the screen. If we step back, we can see objects like cars and people moving around. We can see joy, happiness etc. This is a valid perspective, yet let's let go of that and zoom into the screen. If we look real close, we can see the screen and pixels dancing around. From this close-up view there is only pixels moving around - we can no longer make sense of it and give it meaning. There are no more cars and people moving around. There is no way to assign meaning. How could one say the dancing pixels are "love"? We may see some pixels and say "that is love", yet when we step back we see those pixels are organized in such a way that a person is murdering another person. Ooops!! That aint love from this perspective!! So from the pixel perspective, we simply have dancing pixels moving around. There is no way for us to make any distinctions. Now, take a closer look. We first saw separate pixels interacting with each other. Yet if we look even closer, we see that it is actually one giant pixel that is modulating. The giant pixels swirls around. Here is a key. . . to assign any distinction or value to the one giant pixel, what needs to happen? For example, to say "it is love", what needs to happen? Within the giant pixel there is nothing. To assign a something there must be separation. There must be some separate entity observing the giant pixel and assigning love. This is the big step into nonduality that is very challenging. The sense of separation dissolves and there is just the dancing pixel. There is no longer a separate you. It is only the swirling pixel. Any statement about that pixel requires separation. Awareness itself is a duality. For there to be awareness, there must be a separate thing to be aware of. In this analogy, awareness and object collapse into one (the one giant swirling pixel). To take it one step further, look around you. The human mind is conditioned to have a "far-out" view and see all the objects. Yet can you see all the pixels? Everything around you are the pixels on an invisible screen. Notice how some pixels around you are moving and some pixels are still. The tree branch pixels are moving. The parked car pixels are still. Now look deeper. See the one giant pixel of everything around you. It is one giant pixel swirling around. A big step further. . . see that YOU are also pixels within the one giant swirling pixel. . . What needs to happen to make any statement about the one swirling pixel? Just like above, there needs to be separation from the one giant pixel. To say "it is love" is separation. How can the one giant pixel be love? That would mean it isn't hate. Yet the one giant pixels is Everything. This is why one word is too many. Everything is within the One giant swirling pixel. It is infinite. That is nonduality. That is the absolute. At this point we are still making a distinction between nonduality (absolute) and duality (relative). The human mind is so conditioned into duality (relative) that I think it's important to spend consider effort toward nonduality and gaining considerable grounding in nonduality before the next step that integrates nonduality and duality. The trap here is embracing nonduality and rejecting duality. This will cause all sorts of struggles and inner turmoil because they are both actually the same. Going back to the movie example. From that one giant swirling pixel, any "thing" can arise. Now, any thing that arises is relative. Don't reject the relative, just understand it. From the One swirling pixel, can a tree arise? Of course, take a step back and see a tree. Yet notice that tree is relative. Does the One giant pixel see a tree? Does a rock see a tree? An ant? No. So is the tree there? Yes and No. It's relative. This is where humans get stuck on an objective external reality. Essentially, the human mind is obsessed with proving to itself and others that the tree is objectively real. It is and it isn't. It's just relative. The movie is both one giant swirling pixel AND lots of objects - cars people, love, hate etc. The absolute and relative are integrated as one. However, the perception of the absolute flows through the filter of a human mind-body. In the relative, my mind-body will not transform into a bird or fly, nor will it start speaking Russian today. So all things relative are also absolute. The human mind creates that separation. When that separation dissolves, magnificence emerges. I find it very challenging to enter this space with other humans because other humans are totally immersed within the relative. I find it much much easier to enter these spaces in nature. Go hiking in nature and let that separation dissolve. Including subconscious orientations such as "I am human. That is a tree". Let that dissolve and BE the one giant swirling pixel. Not a human observing the One giant swirling pixel. Actually BEing it. Then zoom out for the far out perspective. Going back and forth between absolute is a trip. Communication and connectedness with trees, insects, animals is truly amazing.

For those of us that are Last Thursdayites, today is a special day. . . It’s Thursday baby!!! ? So get out there and create an amazing reality you can enjoy until Next Thursdayism kicks in.

As curious as I am about a potential coral, I think a coral video is counter-productive at the collective level. According to spiral theory, one cannot understand two conscious levels higher than where they are centered. Three conscious levels higher is completey beyond any comprehension. There are very few people centered in Yellow. Look at the yellow mega-thread. Very few of those videos are yellow. Recognizing yellow is much easier than actually embodying yellow. That means very few people are yellow centered. Even those few people centered in yellow couldn’t understand coral. So even if a description of coral was possible it would be incomprehensible and misinterpreted. It likely wouldn’t even be verbal. Imagine if Leo just stood there without saying anything. He just stood there staring at the camera. You would be like “wtf is this?”. Little do you know he is on a coral frequency of immaterial photontronic intuition hybridized from three different intersecting dimensions. Coral would be batshit crazy like that. Hundreds of years away kinda stuff.

A thought experiment: Imagine you will be asked a trivia question. If you answer correctly, you win a billion dollars. Yet if you answer incorrectly, you lose everything you own - your house, car, job, clothing - everything. So you don’t want to guess. You are on national TV in front if millions of viewers. Here it comes. . . Is a gablish a tecklit of a fromwik? What comes to mind? Would you go blank? Be confused? You are stumped because there is an abscence of meaning. It doesn’t have meanng, yet that doesn’t mean it’s meaningless. There is simply an absence of meaning (I made the words up). Therefore, the answer is not “yes”, nor is the answer “no”. It is neither yes or no. (Or both yes and no). Our human minds are conditioned to to assign meaning and think in opoosites: “it either is or is not”, “either yes or no”, “life is good, death is bad”. If the mind does not assign meaning, there is absence of meaning. When faced with this, the mind wants to go to the other extreme and say it is meaningless. Yet neither is true. There is an absence of meaning. A haptid doesn’t have meaning nor is it meaningless, it never existed in your reality. You never assigned it meaning. In nonduality we may say things like “enlightenment is one, yet also not one” or “the ego is an illusion, yet it also exists” or “everything arises from nothing” or “there is groundless ground”. These types of contradictions used to drive me crazy, until I let go of the mind’s obsession with assigning meaning and became comfortable with abscence of meaning. Then, I higher-order intuitive understanding arose. A nonverbal, nonconceptual knowing that I never knew existed. When I desired to assign meaning and explain verbally, I was never satisfied with an answer and was continually in seeking mode. Yet with this intuitive knowing, there is an abscence of either satisfaction or dissatisfaction because there is nothing to satisfy. There is just a knowing. Similiar to how you just know you want chocolate ice cream. It’s just a knowing that cannot be proven or explained. You just know you want chocolate ice cream.

Awesome! I hope it’s posted on YT!

That takes a lot of skill and mastery

@Tony 845 Are you going to ask a question? I’d love to see that.

@Tony 845 Be careful about getting lulled into the enlightenment story trap. Below is a woman who got immersed into the enlightenment story trap for decades. Notice her attachment to the idea that enlightenment is some “thing” or “happening”. That is the trap and there is no end to the story because that enlightenment thing or happening doesn’t exist. It IS Now. Everything right Now. There is no enlightenment thing.

@Sharp Nice post Sharp. In particular, I liked how you described various dream immersion states such as the mall and politics. Yet also things like yoga and self-inquiry. It’s easy for me to step back and see it in people doing “low conscious” everday activities. Yet it’s also easy for me to get dream immersed in “high conscious” activities like talking about yoga. Even tonight I got immersed into it by rambling on about the nature of trauma. . . yet it was oh so profound! ? Last week I was deeply immersed in nature in Sedona and felt like I really stepped outside of the human mind patterns, including discussions about the best yoga techniques, the nature of self-inquiry, what is reality etc. All that stuff seemed similiar to duscussing sports, reality tv, politics etc. It’s just different topics of the same type of immersion. Humans seemed so far away and such strange creatures. I could relate and communicate better with trees than humans. Returning to people places was really awkward and I felt really uncomfortable trying to interact with them. It was like a different dimension.

A very interesting article, yet a duplicate thread. The original thread on this article can be found here;

If it is neuronal death, it's dead and irreversible. For example with spinal cord injuries or exposure to highly neurotoxic chemicals like methamphetamine. Neuronal damage can take many forms. The healing potential depends on the type of damage. For example, a neuron can suffer loss of neurites - these are neuronal extensions that communicate with other neurons. As well, there can be loss of neural plasticity - this is the ability of neural networks to rewire to allow learning and new perspectives. Neurotrophic factors stimulate the formation of new neurites and increase neuronal plasticity, yet we haven't developed effective ones that can cross the blood-brain barrier. Recently psychedelics have been shown to act a neurotrophic factors in cell culture and in mice. They are part of a new class of molecules referred to as psychoplastogens. . . As well, meditation has been shown to increase grey matter. For example, in a region of the brain associated with empathy. Even people that had never meditated in there life showed increased grey matter after eight weeks of a meditation program. This grey matter increase represents formation of neurite extensions and is reflective of enhanced abilities. For example, the new meditators showing increased grey matter would be correlated with an increased ability of empathy. Regarding the creation of new neuronal cells. . . Differentiated neuronal cells have exited the cell cycle and no longer divide. There are a very small number of adult neural stem cells that have the capacity to re-enter the cell cycle and create new neurons. Yet, we currently do not understand this mechanism. There has not been a lot of research regarding the effect of releasing emotional blockages on neural health. I think this is a wonderful area of research to explore. I believe this is an unexplored region for two reasons: First, releasing emotional blockages is still within the areas of psychological therapy, meditation, yoga, reiki etc. Neuroscience is still contracted within a reductionist and materialist paradigm. They are expanding, yet it is slow. Second, I believe science has become more and more influenced by corporations and capitalism. Most research funding is dominated by utility. What scientific gadget can we create and profit off of? What profitable new drugs can we develop? Even nonprofit academic research institutions are restrained by this. Studies involving the neuroscience of meditation, emotional blockage release, reiki etc. just aren't profitable and aren't funded. Hopefully as the collective consciousness increases, so will this type of funding. In particular from highly conscious wealthy donors. This would depend on our definition of "trauma" and "real". I am using the term trauma in a holistic perspective that includes both the immaterial energetic systems and material systems. To see if we are using the term "real" in the same context. . . Imagine a person is being chased by an aggressive dog. The person's mind is hyper alert. There body is breathing heavily and filled with hormones creating stress. Would you consider that heavy breathing and that hormonal stress response the body is experiencing as being "real". I do. And if we agree that it is real, then I see no way that one can conclude that traumatic experiences have real effects that can persist for years. I think we may be using different usages of the term trauma. If you could explain how you are using the term trauma it would help me. I am using the term to include both the immaterial, such as energetic systems (chakras, energetic blocks, meridians, intuition etc) as well as material biological systems (neurotransmitters, hormones etc). Together, they would yield mind-body sensations referred to as anxiety, panic, stress and terror. I think an integration of both immaterial and material is necessary for a holistic view of trauma and removing one would yield an incomplete perspective at the human mind-body level. I don't see "enlightenment" as a thing and I don't see a "you" in enlightenment. I don't see a path to "enlightenment" because there is no place for a path to lead to. The One Everything/Nothing does not have any separation. I see psychedelics as a powerful tool to expand one's consciousness. Imagine going from the conscious level of a mouse to that of a human. Psychedelics can greatly expand human consciousness beyond the ordinary state. Psychedelics can also produce whacky nonsense and I don't think they are effective for a mind-body until that mind-body has reached a certain conscious level. In particular, I think the mind-body needs to develop a grounded "observer + object" stage. If not, the psychedelic trip is often recontextualized in a way that is counter-productive to consciousness expansion. I would consider both sober experiences and psychedelic experiences to be enlightenment, since there is no escape from enlightenment. I think trying to manipulate with pills is a contracted view that is counter-productive. It is trying to isolate one component of an integrated system and manipulate that component. This is a highly limited view that does not consider the holistic view, including the energetic systems I mentioned above. If I was to develop research and treatment plans, I would only place about 5% of my resources in pill development and usage - and this would only be temporary to help allow more holistic healing. 95% of my focus would be outside of pills and medication. There are much richer and more productive areas to explore. Neuroscience is associated with pills and medications, yet it is beyond that. The strength of neuroscience is observation of the physical realm and how the nonphysical impacts the physical. For example, FMRIs and EEG brain scans can help us develop treatment plans for a person. A person could consider both their subjective experience of meditation, yoga, reiki etc. with brain scans revealing physical activity. I think a major deterrent in progress is separation. I see so many divided camps. There are the neuroscientists, reiki masters, yogis, exercise enthusiasts, psychologists etc that are all in their own camps defending their own views. It is all inter-related. It is holistic. Imagine a Reiki master of energetic systems that is also a neuroscience master. She does Reiki and uses real time feedback of intuition, empathy, energetic sensations and EEG feedback. Or a healer that integrates psychotherapy, Reiki, yoga, mediation and brain scans. Whatever tool is appropriate, or a combination of tools. I think it's a deterrent to categorize things as this and that and insist that my tool is better than yours. It's like a carpenter that will only use a hammer and is anti-screwdriver. Its absurd. There is awareness that my mind-body is being chased by an aggressive dog. There is awareness that the mind-body is running. There is awareness that the mind-body is experiencing stress and panic. Awareness does not remove the sensations of what is occurring in the mind-body. The mind-body is still running and experiencing stress and terror. Quite often, higher level awareness can help relax the mind-body and help dissolve anxiety, yet not necessarily. At a trans-personal level, there is an unconditional peace and stillness in that higher-order awareness. Yet that is independent of the mind-body sensations. The mind-body could be experiencing relaxation, joy or terror and that higher-order stillness is present. Yet, that is not what I am referring to as trauma. I am using the term trauma in both a metaphysical and mind-body context. There is a still presence even if the body is undergoing trauma. One could make a distinction here and say from a trans-personal level that the suffering of trauma is not real, yet the mind-body pain of trauma is real. Again, we are using relative terms. Sure, if we remove distinctions then joy and trauma is transcended. And so is love, anger, frustration - whatever. To me, that is a different conversation above the human level. An interesting one yet different. It seems here we are talking at the human level of consciousness of experience. I would say acute trauma is an integrated experience of thought, feelings and energetics. I don't think one can reduce it to thought. I knew an 8 yr. old boy that was forced to watch his mother being brutally stabbed to death by his father. At the human level, that experience had widespread effects on that child - including memories and thoughts. Yet, not limited to that. His whole limbic system and HPA system was altered. His energetic systems of intuition and empathy were altered. I could feel it just being around him. Even if he wasn't thinking about memories of the event. You could remove the thoughts and memories and there would still be after effects. I don't see it in these dualistic terms. I don't think one can separate a within and a without. They are an integrated whole. I think higher-order awareness is very helpful for the mind-body, yet the stillness of higher-order awareness does not necessarily relieve the mind-body of the experience. If a mind-body was being beaten, would trans-personal awareness remove the pain of the mind-body? This is at the human level. At a trans-human level there is a still presence that transcends the mind-body experience yet does not eliminate the mind-body experience. This awareness can be help alleviate symptoms of the mind-body, yet not necessarily. One mentality I see over and over is that there is some thing called "enlightenment" that will remove one's ills. Panic, depression etc. The One Everything/Nothing includes everything. The idea that there is a thing called enlightenment that will relieve one's experience of pain is highly dualistic and at the level of the personality. The trans-human level includes the human mind-body and beyond. It doesn't care about the wants and needs of the self. That energetic motivation is at the level of the self. At the trans-human level of consciousness it doesn't matter if the mind-body is experiencing joy, pain, love, terror or whatever. It is an unconditional freedom. When you say you overcame OCD, that is at the human level. When you say "OCD" I am assuming you are referring to mental and physical symptoms commonly called "OCD". The physiological symptoms of OCD dissolved. Yet that has nothing to do with the trans-human level of consciousness. With that said, I think it is very important to have a healthy mind-body at the human level - that includes the dissolution of sensations such as OCD, depression, panic etc. The trans-personal level of awareness can help immensely with alleviating the symptoms of various neurosis. Yet I would not agree to the statement that neuroses are not real at the human level. This level is highly subjective. Right now, my mind-body is experiencing neck and shoulder pain. There is a higher-order awareness of this pain that is detached from the pain and does not identify with the pain. Yet, the pain is still present. From your perspective, are you saying the pain in my shoulder's and neck is not real? I think awareness can help relieve blockages and many neuroses, yet there are also structural problems. Awareness of leg paralysis won’t do much to restore leg functionality. Thank you. My mind is highly in tune with psychological dynamics and likes to deconstruct psychological dynamics. I try to do it in an impersonal way. Yet, it can often come across as overly-assertive and personal. It is not my intention, yet often the impact. It is something I am working on to be a more effective communicator. I appreciate your openness. Your English is excellent as a second language. These types of conversations can be highly abstract and nuanced. They are at an a very advanced language level. I speak Spanish at an upper intermediate level and there is no way I could come close to having this type of conversation in Spanish. Your ideas regarding trauma has led me to contemplate this and gain some greater clarity. For that, I thank you.

@theking00 At times, I found nondual type answers to be esoteric, confusing and frustrating. I resonated with more "Down to Earth" answers. For me, one of the biggest breakthroughs in this area was reaching the "observer + object" stage in meditation. Here, there is awareness of thoughts and feelings. This awareness is detached and does not identify with thoughts or feelings. One method I found helpful was labeling thoughts and feelings without criticism or judgement. It was a long repetitive process until I got my first glimpses of the detached observer. With further practice one can get "distance" from attachment to thoughts and feelings. This opens up a whole new world of exploration. I still enter this zone regularly and work within it. An image that just appeared in my mind: imagine a person chained to a tree. The chain represents attachment and the tree represents thoughts and feelings. The mind likes to blame the tree, yet the tree is not retraining the person. It is the chain that is restraining. Free yourself of that chain and you can begin to explore. Including climbing trees and exploring realms outside the matrix.

@Bluebird Dualistic perspective: 1st Law of Thermodynamics - energy is neither created nor destroyed. Energy can only be changed from one form to another. Nondual perspective: One Everything. There is no separate, finite "you". There is no escape.