Hardkill

Thank you all very much for responses. I thought they were all definitely good, especially yours Aurum. Yours was excellent. I think this really help me out a lot.

I know that Leo and some other people recently gave me great advice on my previous on how to improve my dating and sex life on my thread "I just got banned from a pickup forum." However, I realized that I still keep getting contradictory advice on how to be successful with women. I want to believe that what Leo and others like him said to me before, which was that " You're not approaching nearly enough." However, I've been told by others that I should be approaching no more than about 20-30 girl per week and that I am probably approaching too many. These guys think that that could be the reason as to why I am getting so frustrated. They believe that I am over investing too much into this and just going through the motions, without ever stepping back and taking a good hard look into what I am doing wrong. Therefore, they think that I should approach less girls and do more analyzing on what I've been doing wrong. For example, this guy: Obviously, analyzing your mistakes after making a certain amount of them is important, especially in the long-run. Also, yes the quality of each approach is important as well. However, I am not sure who to believe or follow because of all the contradictory advice. Sure, I could just try one way and see how that goes; however, what if I end up wasting so much time making so many unnecessary mistakes that could have been put to better use on a truly effective method for dating and pickup? Hell, I already feel like I've wasted so much time with almost all of the approaches both warm and cold that I've ever made and have virtually every pickup and dating method out there from A-Z that was supposed to work. It's so frustrating. I wonder what people here, including mods like Leo, have to say about this.

Ah ok, that makes sense. So then, it sounds like coaches like Hayley Quinn and her team either don’t exactly know what they talking about or perhaps didn’t do a sufficient job at clearly explaining how to much to approach as a beginner. I mean they did say that u should approach a lot per day as a newbie if you have approach anxiety in order to get COMFORTABLE with talking to new girls. However, from what they told me regarding how much to approach AFTER u get comfortable enough with cold (or even warm) approaching random women, they basically told me that I should do less volume and more analysis on what could I’ve have done better. They also also were like “don’t be like a door to door salesman trying to approach a high volume of women and knocking on doors until someone says yes. Be more like someone who displays a great art piece in an art gallery. Though you had me convinced with your response that that way sounds good in an idealistic manner, but very likely won’t ever work for beginners because doing it that way will give them insufficient and inconsistent reference experiences for them to learn from. So, all in all, to get the best results you of course need to do both mass approaching and analyzing your mistakes. However, it’s always better to just do mass approaching alone (especially as a beginner) then to just do self-reflection on each of your approaches when you’re only doing a minimal amount of approaches per week every week per month per year.

So then why have some coaches like Hayley Quinn and a couple of her associates said that they believe that I am over investing too much into this and feel like I am just going through the motions, without ever stepping back and taking a good hard look into what I am doing wrong? Why do they think that I should approach less girls and do more analyzing on what I've been doing wrong?

I know that I need to put in A LOT MORE work on my cold approaching to get better at it and to improve my overall dating skills. However, as a hard case newbie like myself would trying to meet women I find ATTRACTIVE through social circles or hobbies not work for me?

With all due respect, that did not sound very helpful. You can say that you're just telling the truth and what have you, but I do not see how it was appropriate and relevant to the topic and advice that I was looking for on this thread at all.

I know, but it’s like no matter where I go, I can never the right match for me. So how can I fix this for sure?

I just wanted to respond to someone who posted on one of my last threads who showed me the Youtube video on realistic daytime statistics from Tom Torero. It does give a fairly good rough estimate on how good even the best guys at game are. Even this guy who has worked with Kezia Noble and her team have agreed with him on the stats of the game. I've talked to Hayley Quinn and her team, who are another company of British PUA and dating coaches, and one of them said that 90% of cold approaches won't lead to sex and dating. One highly experienced student of Gunwitch, who has over a decade worth of successful experiences with game has mentioned that at least 80% of women will reject you, regardless of how good you are at cold approach or with women. Gunwitch, who is virtually one of the best PUAs in the world, has an approach to lay ratio of 1 to 5. That means that the best that Gunwitch has ever gotten for a same day lay or same night lay or instant lay was that for every 5 girls he approaches he fucks 1 of them. Now if Gunwitch were to go on dates with women and try and take things slower (i.e. instead of meeting up with a girl on the same day he approached her, he meets her 1-3 days or about a week after he approaches her, then his approach to lay would cut down to about 1 to 10). This is because the more aggressive and thereby faster you are with women the more women you're likely to sleep with. Doing aggression screening will get you more noes (hence less dates and less numbers), but it will get more yeses, assuming you screen this way consistently with many women. This is a higher risk, but higher reward way of getting laid. It also take a bit of practice in calibration to get this right. Even Chris from Goodlookingloser has mentioned how much of cold approaching and dating is a numbers game multiple times on his Youtube vids and website. James Tusk in one of the vids he was in with Kezia Noble had said that you're gonna get a lot more no's than yes's if your main goal is to just get laid a lot. He also gave a realistic daygame statistics on his website, and his numbers are very similar to Tom Torero's. Corey wayne, has talked about dating and cold approaching largely being a number games as well in a number of his Youtube vids and articles on his website. Hayley Quinn has said that about 10% of the women you approach or meet in real life will have a great connection with you, be VERY attracted to you, and will be hot and sexy to you. So, if you rejected by most women then don't beat yourself over it. Massive rejection will always be part of the game, even when you get good with women. Btw, according to the abovementioned student of Gunwitch, he met Mystery IRL and said that even Mystery's approach to lay ratio was much worse than Gunwitch's. Also, there will always be virtually a lot of hot women to approach in any town you're, unless you live in a small town. In a large city, especially ones like London, NYC, or LA, there will always be virtually an infinite amount of hot women to approach during the day and night. That's it really move to or live very near a city like NYC, LA, London, Austin, Dallas, Miami, Vegas, etc. Every pickup and dating coach has said that it's best to move or be near a large city. Going back to the numbers game, any other PUA and dating coach who says that they can get you laid with most of the women you approach are lying. I think Leo would pretty much agree with all of this. Though I am waiting to get a confirmation from him on this.

Well, I am not sure anymore if getting help from any pickup or dating coach because it's like I worry that I will say something to piss them off when I didn't mean to. There is this female dating and pickup coach named Hayley Quinn. She didn't like it when I told her that she was being evasive with most of my questions or that I disagreed with her on something. It's so stupid because we've been taught by dating coaches to not be afraid of disagreeing with something, especially when we are the customer. She also thought that I made a misogynistic statement when I said "if she (the girl's friend) is not happy then fuck her. You're not supposed to give a shit about what she thinks." How the hell is that misogynistic when I trying to emphasize the idea that you shouldn't have to put up with the girl's friends' disapproval of you? She also told me not to mention death after I said to Oliver "I've been to several therapists and I still feel inadequate with women. Having said all of this, you're not alone, Oliver. We can and we will die trying." Boy, she talks about context. She really takes things out of context. Furthermore, she's supposed to be helping people with social issues. This is all so fucked up. What am I supposed to do? I've tried so hard on this for over 3 whole years and I am getting so hungry for good results, it's not even funny at all. People tell me not to worry about what others think or judge and yet I get banned from certain sites. Do not tell me that it's all fault because it won't acknowledge my thoughts and feelings on this matter. I've tried virtually EVERYTHING on improving my social skills and seduction skills and I keep getting more bad than good results. It's like I've been on this hellish journey to try and cure a terminal cancer I have, and so far there has been no cure or good treatment for it. I just tried taking a break from dating and pickup and socializing with others for several months and try to focus on my hobbies. Yet it didn't help me feel much any better. In fact, it made feel more powerless over the fact that I couldn't do anything to significantly improve my dating and social life. I've been trying meditation, but it still isn't working that much yet. I've been getting feedback on my approach, dating, and social reports and I am still stuck. I've been to therapists and psychiatrists for countless years of my stupid life and I am still stuck. God Damn it! I am so fucking tired of feeling the agony of failure over and over again without any significant progress.

Have u ever been to the US before? The various types of women of various levels of attractiveness. Some are not so attractive looking, some are just plain, some look cute or kinda hot, and some looking smoking hot or drop dead gorgeous.

Well I usually try to escalate physically as fast as EFFECTIVELY possible. After all, I am looking for just casual sex and I don't want to her to friend zone me. When this happens, most of the time I never hear from or see them again. Sometimes though, I've gotten makeouts and even laid. However, there have been a couple of times where after I did heavy petting with a girl or had full P to V sex with her, she would tell me days later that I wanted was sex or that I just liked her body. There have been a few of times when I try not escalating as much as I usually do, and the girl at the end of the date would just hug me, say her goodbyes, and then about a day or a few days later or a week later she tells me something like "I am sorry I just don't feel it with you. You're a good guy. You're just not for me" or "It was nice to meet with you the other day, but honestly I just didn't feel it. I wish you all the best" or "I am flattered that you want to see me again, but I don't think that we are a match. I am looking for someone with a stable career and is ready for marriage." There have been a couple of times when I try not escalating as much as I usually do, and I ended up kissing the girl at the end of the date, but then a couple days later has texted back by saying "Hey, it was nice to meet you the other day, but to be honest I didn't really feel a connection between us. Take care and I hope you have a better future" or has said to me "Hey Ross...thank you for sending me a massage. I think that you're a good guy. However, I was thinking though that we don't really have that much in common to keep in touch...sorry." With the girl who sent me the latter response after I madeout with her I replied back with "Oh, I am shocked you feel that we. I thought we had a moment right before we parted ways :?." She then was like "Yes I know, and it was a nice moment. However, I am at point in my life where I am looking for something serious and want to focus on that." My final response to her was "and exactly are you looking for?" Afterwards, I never got a response from her ever again.

Okay, well I've tried my martial arts place, my gym, and running club, and I've tried yoga a number of times. I've tried meeting all of the ones that I am attracted to in each of places but they either didn't seem interested in me or they flaked out on me after getting their number or they were already taken. I've tried meetups like Kickball, meditation, volleyball and trivia night at a bar, but I failed in those places too. I don't know where or what else to try that would be a good shot for me for to meet attractive and available women who would be interested in me. Also, I tried dating a couple of girls who I met from a female friend of mine. I got rejected after my first date with each of them. Yeah, so I don't know where to go from there.

Maybe I am still too inexperienced even after having approached about 1,000 girls in all kinds of venues for the past 3 years, which btw is much more than what 90-99% of men out there in the world have done with meeting women.

But what if I suck with women?

Your very last dream ever.

If you are ever put on trial, explain to the judge and the jury that you didn't anything wrong because it's just the accuser's perception of his reality.

So if I wanted to fly without any device or equipment or airplane then all I have to do is believe that it will happen. Yeah?

lol. Alright well thank you very much for your helpful replies. I know have a horrible victim mindset. A lot of it of course comes from my failures with women and because I've never had a girlfriend before, even at the age of 30. It's ironic, since I used to always visualize success with women even though I would always get nervous and shy every time I approached an attractive girl because I used to think that I was God's gift to every woman due to my looks and gentlemanly demeanor. Of course, I had a really rude awakening after getting rejected numerous times. So because of my failures with women coupled with the idea that PUA experts have mentioned that you shouldn't expect any in return, it's so hard for me to truly visualize success with beautiful women as a reality. It's like I always think about sleeping with hot girls and making at least one of them my girlfriend or fuck buddy, but then have this other thought in my head "It may never happen (or happen again). Maybe I am just pipe dreaming. The only reason why I ever got laid with a few fairly attractive girls was due to luck."

Ah gotcha. Okay, phew. I mean no offense to unattractive looking women or fat girls, they are people too, but I just don't think I could have sex with them. Also, I wouldn't be feeling genuine with how I feel about her. I wouldn't want to lead them on too far and end up making them really feel used for just sex with absolutely no attraction and/or connection between us. Even if it's just for a one night stand or some sort of casual short-term thing like friends with benefits, both the guy and the girl need to feel enough of a real attraction and connection between the two in order for the sex to be good and to not have either party feel like they lowered their standards or dignity too much. So I guess for now I'll set my sights for sleeping with girls whom I find as being reasonably attractive or at least slightly above average looking. Like about a 6-7 out of 10 in looks and about a 6-7 out of 10 in connection with each other. Sounds fair?

Damn, so then I take it that you've slept with a lot of fat and physically unappealing girls before.

So I should start off banging fat girls and average looking girls and drunk girls? lol

Hmm...alright. So when you say a random horny girl will just want to fuck me and do possibly more with me after doing enough approaches consistently, in this case you're not talking about just some unattractive or homely looking girl or a girl who I don't find attractive at all or some drunk girl from a bar or club? Right?

damn! So would you say that if you can do it, then I should INEVITABLY be able to get laid with a very hot girl from cold approach too? Or do u think it's possible that cold approach won't ever work for some people even if they truly trued their hardest everyday, every week, every month, every year and approach about thousands of girls or more per year at various kinds of venues? Also, what about social circles? Will I never get great dates or get laid with any girls I am attracted to from that as a hard case newbie?

I've been totally maximizing my looks; albeit my clothing style could be improved on. However, as cocky as this may sound people have told since I was a teenager that I should be a model. Plus, as I just previously implied here on this thread and on a number of other threads on here, I am extremely physically active and an experienced blackbelt in Hapkido. I'll DM you my instagram account (I don't feel comfortable posting my instagram username here publicly). However, I don't have much money of my own. I live and am financially supported by my parents. I am grad student in teaching.

So then about how many approaches a week should I do if I really want to start seeing real progress? Like approach at least 40 girl that I am attracted to per week?