SOUL

@Osaid This is why I said describing it may not be all that useful because we all have a perspective of it that may not exactly reflect another’s perspective of it. What you call subtractive another may call additive, you view it as removing something that separates from realization which another may view as adding something else that transcends the separation that prevents realization. Another may view it as the realization that the thing being subtracted isn't really there, so it's not subtracting anything, it's finally viewing it as it really is. Or it's not really adding anything because what is always is and realization is not material to add or subtract. Which is the reason I suggest descriptions of realization is trying to explain the inexplicable and often becomes a stumbling block to those that are experiencing the appearance of separation. The milestones along the way on the journey meant to guide us often become the very things that mislead us from getting to the destination, and even to describe it as such may be a misdirection.

@Princess Arabia So it seems a comment that the realization is inexplicable which you refer to as 'enlightenment' is an explanation that appears to already have become a stumbling block because the ego loves to rationalize everything into separation. The ego sets up gates of entry, things to attain, steps to accomplish and many kinds of criteria all designed to keep us on the hamster wheel of activity to 'do' so we can 'get'. The 'warning' as you called it is me describing how the ego behaves to prevent realization, which isn't useful once realized, not describing the realization itself. My apologies for trying to add anything to this topic....carry on and ignore my comments.

There isn't a universal experience of it, everyone has their own perspective, even as there are commonalities to it that most will encounter. Some will say it isn't even an experience, that it's an absence of experience. Too often I see people chasing after another's perspective of it to give themselves credibility or using certain types of things to 'police' others at whether they are or aren't. These can become stumbling blocks to their own journey. Seeking out descriptions or trying to describe it can also create separation, transcending the description can be liberating because it removes the 'things' for the ego to attach to.

Since you put "knowing" in quotes it must mean I said I know how you came to your views, so please quote where I said that. I'll wait...Oh wait, I didn't say it, it's you who are the presumptive one and I merely pointed out where these views are known to widely circulate. That was in response to you saying you have never met anyone to have 'similar' views so I explained where there are many who have 'similar' views not that I 'know' that's where you got them. So either you are unaware of your own lack of comprehension or you intentionally twist words. You pick. It's you who said in this thread how you came to those views...I just quoted it to you and pointed out it's what conditioning actually is after you said you haven't been conditioned. You said you got it from engaging with other humans, no presumption required. I don't have to presume, you told us right there that you have been conditioned over years even if you don't even realize it yourself because you said you haven't been conditioned to your views, which proves that you don't realize it. Yet, talk about being presumptive, you said you know the heart and mind of every 'pretty women' in existence, that has ever and will ever live. That is one of the most presumptive things you could ever say and it reveals how little you actually do know. So you can reply again and think we don't 'know' anything about you, but I will remind you, everything you have been posting in this thread shows more about you than you even realize, not just the stuff you think it reveals about you. Again, good luck with that and peace.

@Princess Arabia Yea, for many of us our personal development and our spiritual journey are inextricably linked but there are some that are working on personal development and through the mystical phrasing or jargon we may use the valuable message can be lost. Again, though, I love what you have to say.

@Princess Arabia I do appreciate the tenacity of your engagement but I will remind you that not everyone has the mystical perspective to grasp some of the things you are saying here in the 'personal development' portion of the site. Again, just a gentle reminder but still quality points nonetheless.

The things you have been saying in this thread is widespread in what is colloquially called the manosphere so yea, there are many people that have 'similar' views. So even if you have never encountered anyone online or in person saying similar things, which I have quite a bit of doubt about, there are certainly others who have 'similar' views. I will agree with you if you suggest that there is probably nobody that has the same 'exact' views as you. The reason for this is that even if we are all exposed to the 'exact' same views, how they express themselves in each one of us through our experience and psyche it will be a unique recipe of perspective that doesn't exactly mirror others. Although, even with this uniqueness we all have, people often regurgitate portions of it in the very same way it was conditioned into them and it is only if one expresses the whole of their perspective will we see the variations between the different views though they may be 'similar'. To do that your original post would have been pages and pages long to accomplish it, which is virtually impossible. So, please use that power of 'internal reflection' you speak about to transcend the self suffering that has caused you to have such a painful perspective of the people you do. Good luck and peace.

@Princess Arabia You DO know.

You don't even know your own heart and mind as proven by you saying this... You say you haven't been conditioned to think it and then describe how you came to think it by what conditioning actually is. Your words are just regurgitation of other people's words that are evoked by the pain experienced in life. We all have had to endure pain in life, we all have been exposed to the words and ideas of others, we all are products of our environment. Once one becomes aware of this process, we can consciously participate in it and influence the direction of our growth instead of let it be chosen for us by others. One day you will become aware of what you are revealing to everyone here with the things you have been saying and I hope when that day comes you will be mature and aware enough to let it free your mind and heal your heart... ...and be at peace.

@Princess Arabia Reading the thread it seems you expressed very similar things so I could have said the very same thing about your replies.

Assigning character traits to someone because of how they appear is a you thing not a them thing.

Not to mention prejudices, you have pre-judged a group of people because of a trait they have little control over and treat them in such a way which reflects your prejudice as you imagine them to be not reflective of them as they are. So you can continue to prejudge people and treat them a certain way as a reaction to what's in your imagination or you can cease to prejudge people and treat them according to how they treat you or even treat them a certain way despite how they treat you. This isn't moralizing or an opinion, this is just what it is. Take it as you will.

There isn't anything anyone says that is 100% true because everything we experience is filtered through our mind which has belief bias and perceptual paradigms, which are rarely a 100% accurate perception of what actually is. There are more than just emotions and thoughts that motivate behavior, there are also self perceptions, dialog, impulses, urges and desires. Someone could call all the activity in the mind as 'thoughts' in some respect because it manifests in the field of awareness in our mind so could be called 'thoughts'. That word play aside the one thing said in the video that could be useful is, paraphrased, how the subconscious mind is conditioned from our previous experience and it's helpful to not reflexively act from the stimuli that rises out of the subconscious into the field of awareness in the conscious mind. This is simply abiding in contemplative awareness, also can be called being presence. Emotion also isn't negative or positive, just our perspective of them will create a bias towards them. I suspect Razard expounded more fully on these things as they have a tendency to do, haha.

Cool story thanks

...hm

Whatever brings you to a place of well being just celebrate that it has. In Christian teaching that place of well being is expressed as heaven which is not a place of judgement, it is a place of love, grace and forgiveness. Judgement is not in heaven, it's in hell. The bible teaches that love is the greatest, so if you have judgement of others, then contemplate whether you have the kingdom of God within you. I don't claim to know what is in your heart, but this is just something to consider.

Interesting how the thread starter seems to believe their interpretation over another interpretation of the same belief, going as far as to compare the other interpretation as if it is the same as an opposing belief or unbelief and saying it is deserving of the same 'punishment' as opposing or unbelief. The moralizing of it and the punishment for not conforming to their interpretation may be more dramatic but it isn't that much different in behavior to the way that people on this forum behave when interacting with people who have a differing interpretation of their same belief. It is more drastic to say someone will be tortured in hell for eternity than it is to say you will stay asleep in illusion but the same psychological mechanism is working in their mind that drives them to perceive the differing perspective in this way and behave in this similar pattern.

We can apply our understanding of this reality of illusion onto the ideological and metaphysical so we cease telling other people 'no, you're wrong' about the mystical experiences we have. Know and accept that the very same exact thing will appear differently to each one of us.

How is the reaction to this type of differing conceptualization that is rarely offered here any different to how so many on this forum react to the slightest difference in the conceptualizations that are often shared here? Take a moment to examine our own reaction to being exposed to differing perspectives.

@vibv Don't tell Leo that because it appears from his perception of consciousness there are degrees which would suggest multiple....non-experiences of varying degrees, otherwise it would be in the absolute infinite fullness. The mind loves to create milestones, so it can chart the appearance of progress and imagine it finds its way back to something it doesn't have or loses, since it is a challenge to abide in continually because of the mind's own activity. @VeganAwake A journey without a path and no steps to take that isn't traveled and has no destination. Oh and you may be too generous...it seems like the conditioned mind falls for it every. dam. time.

Something to be aware of is the propensity of the self conscious, also can be referred to as the ego, to take any certain type of experience that mystics talk about and turn it into an activity that creates separation between some imagined goal. Enlightenment, however one will define it, is essentially a 'non-activity' that appears in the mind as a goal we don't currently have experience of then tries to 'do something' to attain it. Enlightenment isn't special in this regard, even god realization can be conceptualized by the mind this same way. Some may even say that both of those are 'non-experiences' as well, which adds to the mind's conceptualized separation from them because the mind is an activity generator by its nature. Its stimuli purpose is to motivate behavior so is counterproductive for those realizations. This isn't to make a statement about whether either are actual or illusion, just that the mind will seize upon anything mystical and conceptualize it as separated from it then having to do something to attain it. It is just what it does, not good or bad, right or wrong, just is what it is.

You really just said that? Just wow, too funny. Maybe you can explain to me how you perceive that your use was nondual and mine was dual...this should be interesting. Haha I would love to continue this exchange, but right now I have a long day of enjoying the amazing weather ahead of me so will return tonight and read any replies to my responses. I won't guarantee I'll have the energy to reply to them until morning, though. Peace brother.

I used the metaphor you used, if it's bad, then why did you use it? It is kind of bad because the more resistance a bulb has the more light it shows which is the opposite with awakening. The less resistance we have the more consciousness it reveals in us, but it's still obvious that our degree of conscious awakening doesn't change the absolute of consciousness. Again, it was your metaphor.

You replied to my post that replied to someone else and then seemed to get manic about our subsequent exchange. Yes, actions reveal how you feel, that is something you don't need me for so leave me out of it. Are we done here?

How bright a light bulb is doesn't reveal to us the qualities of electricity that flows through it in creating the light, it shows us the qualities of the bulb. So pointing to the bulb in trying to explain electricity fails to recognize the nature of electricity available isn't shown to us through the amount or quality of light the bulb displays. Us as the metaphorical bulb with how much 'awakeness' someone has doesn't tell us how much consciousness is available to us, it just shows how much consciousness, or 'brightness', we show. A rock and us have the same exact amount and quality of consciousness available, but obviously there is a difference in how aware, awakened or 'conscious' of it we display. So, yes, everything is consciousness but not equally conscious yet the degree of conscious something or someone is, does not reveal the absolute fullness of consciousness that exists and permeates throughout reality which is not dependent on the 'bulbs' ability to display it. It really is surprising how simple obvious this is and still is so illusive to grasp.