SOUL

Hm, well, love creates the self but fear appears to 'keep' the self, which could be interpreted as expressions with characteristics of preservation.

@Faceless That's..... alot...... hm. It seems you weaved your way through nearly every conceivable facet of "love" in an attempt to find a unified theory of love but I'm not sure whether it really needs to be that way. Every facet of love is it's own expression of that ...hm..... prime element of "love" and has it's own characteristics of expression that are often unique to just the facet even if there is ultimately a commonality to the whole, that prime element of love. Through your winding path you wound up at the ideological and/or abstract facet, can there be love without the identity, which is essentially the awareness of being aware. Which the whole course you took was an elucidation on the many facets from that final facet's dynamic you wound up at. In that abstract facet context it appears to me that acceptance, embracing, faithful and surrender are characteristics of that facet of 'awareness of being aware' love, more than just the concept of it, the being of it. Yet, I think I would need to explain those terms I used a little or they may be misinterpreted. Acceptance meaning an allowing for, a not trying to control or being disturbed by the presence of. Which could be interpreted as agreeing with, but is more accurately seen as coexisting, if that males any sense. Agreeing with is an endorsing of and that is a mechanism of identity creating in our consciousness. What I mean by embracing is like an active acceptance, welcoming in, opening up to, including in and in that abstract sense becoming one with, merging into. Which again the identity creating in our consciousness uses a mechanism that some would characterize as the complete opposite of this and it sure does appear that way since self often is viewed as a separation. Then, there is faithful which may be the most misinterpreted of these characteristics, it isn't belief-full, as in lots of ideas and concepts believed. By faithful I mean, fidelity, true to, loyal, abiding and this may be the only characteristic of that has any resemblance to the mechanism of identity creating in our consciousness. Surrender may be the characteristic that least resembles identity creating because it is letting go of, possession less and giving away control. Although we aren't letting go to be giving up to be empty of self and self-less but to be self-full, infinite self to be merged as one with all self in unity so it appears as our separate self ceases to be in that act of surrender to all. Some may tell us we need to reject that identity creating mechanism's effect in our consciousness to really be this abstract 'love'. They tell us we need get 'no selfed' to death....so to speak. Except that if we are being observant we can see how closely the mechanism of identity creating is to this abstract love and see the characteristics of that love in every expression facet of love as well as self creating. Consciousness agrees with self to identify with it, it clings to self which is an embrace of it and it believes in self which is being faithful because it tries to remain true to the identity. They are practically indistinguishable other than in an extremely nuanced understanding of it and some may try to use that nuance to drive a wedge between them by saying there's a trap, a gotcha, don't use the wrong one! Yet, that act of viewing it with a wedge of nuanced separation has the very characteristics of what they say shouldn't be done to be "love"... see? So, yes, love created our self! Then, ask your self.... if love created our self, is there "love" possible with the self? *laughter*

I guess you could try them all...natural...unnatural...supernatural...maybe a mix.

There needs a time and place to be! Silly monkeys..... Ready for another one? Can I get a witness! *divine laughter*

Explain how "love seems (to) be outside the realm of willful intent". Is love conditional? Well, there are characteristics that constitute what love is, they are not the same that are fear, so there are conditions that make love what love is. If you are asking is there unconditional love as far as extending and receiving it, or conditions that love can exist in then always loving is conditional since always is a condition of it being it. So unconditional love is on the condition of always loving otherwise it isn't unconditional love, ironically. I'm not sure what you mean by "in accordance to subjectivity" although if you are asking can love be subjectively assessed or is it always an objective assessed state then if it can only be objectively assessed then that would be another condition of unconditional love... so we would have to consider if unconditional love is even a thing if 'always' and 'objectively' are conditions of love. But please clarify, maybe I misunderstand you. In my own experience love is a multifaceted thing not easily defined, some of it is cultural, some biological, some ideological and some abstract so I guess I would need to understand how someone is defining 'love' to address specific concerns but for my own path i have seen transformation in my life using love in different forms of it.

@Faceless Through wilful intention we can transform our life in dramatic ways, even the inherent self interest nature quite significantly.

@starsofclay I understand your challenge. Our brains behave in certain ways because of our genetics and there is conditioning that happens from our environment. So we can develop associations between the brain behaviors and the conditioning, that results in ideas about it. A suppression or a excess of a chemical can make us 'feel' in a way we interpret as 'sad', 'depressed', 'anxious', 'agitated' or in any number of emotional ways. We may assume it's us 'feeling' that way and can further interpret those 'feelings' negatively. This can set a spiraling dynamic of increased 'mindset' of 'feeling' that very often is accompanied with thoughts, inner dialog, memories and all sorts of other psychological triggers. A way to mitigate it and begin the untangling the associations can be through intentional impartial observation of the mind. By consciously not endorsing those associations and just accepting that those brain behaviors are what they are, it allows us to not intensify it while also not letting it define our whole being. It may not change the way the brain behaves, although I have had in what appears to be in my own experience, coupled with eating clean, some success in rewiring(neuroplasticity) the habituation of the mind to ease it. I can have a lasting and genuine sense of well being and joy in life even if I'm not quite 'feeling it' naturally in every moment. I would encourage some exploration in this way to see if it can help.

Sound pretty mental mastury to me.

Your belief about mental illness is a social construct, the genetics that give the brain behavior traits are not.

It's easy for someone not experiencing it to shrug it off but it's not quite as simple as it exists or it doesn't. There are definitely genetic traits inherited that contribute to how someone's brain behaves, I know first hand. Although, these traits can range from mild to severe. Mild traits actually could actually manifest as useful behaviors of 'personality types' while severe traits can result in extreme ones that are erratic. Yet, it's not all about just genetics, there are surely more that contributes to it and a holistic approach addressing all of the factors involved is needed. I agree that the easy treatment of drugs is abused too often and there are some nefarious ways they are used but there may actually be people who benefit from them as well. It's not a one size fits all solution for something like mental health and drugs should be a last resort in my opinion. I do think it's irresponsible to be saying it doesn't exist when people are dealing with real conditions in life, it can lead them to think and feel like there's something they are doing wrong or they are bad which could exasperate the issue for them.

@alyra Hah, It may be......So if death is an addiction, would reincarnation be the 12 step recovery? Hehe

Master it? As opposed to be enslaved to it? You may want to examine why you used that word, it could reveal much to you. Besides.... love is free.

@Nahm In my own experience, even with the sense of joy in being, it is so simple it's just funny.

*inserts forum reflexive question with similarly reflexive answer belief dogma* Who is the witness? The witness doesn't exist. *laughs*

I had a dream I was a giant and I opened the roof of a room to pull out a little person over and over again... and eventually it tripped them out.

I also heard that 9 out of 10 doctors agree that good health puts them out of business.... so I would go visit that 10th one.

You misspelled "Me" as "We".... it happens....

I love such a deep cry, one of those tear storms from the cloud burst of compassion...it's soothes my heart and cleanses my mind... I en joy it. I am invigorated by intense experience, one of those adrenaline pumping sense tingling that may be a bit startling, it's stirs my passions and humbles my mortality.... I en joy it. Although, I try not to embrace the rage without a cloak of something else, it scares people...I save that for frenetic drum frenzies that can temper it for those with sensitivities though people may interpret it as they feel the love in my sound, I will agree with them because I love it, too... I en joy it. The waves of sensations can rock the boat but I am the ocean, not the man in the boat trying not to fall because I'm in it and embrace all life, it exists... I en joy it.

@Nahm You sure do love mental masturbating to your beliefs of real and illusion, now change your draws and hug your kids, life exists.

@Nahm The universe exists, do your kids exist? Do you not feed them when they cry that they are hungry? Do you not hug on them when they want your love? Or do you push them away telling them they don't exist? Do you let them starve because their hunger is an "illusion"? It being an illusion is not the same as it doesn't exist..... that is denying existence instead of accepting it. Don't confuse your belief of what it is for what is. When we unite awareness, being and now in our mind of observation it allows for the embracing of life. Stop mental masturbating and live life en joy. I post these because it seems people on here only listen to people saying it in videos but it is what it is.

@Nahm Yes, the timeless and spaceless quantum is shown through the physics collapse of the wave-particle duality.... which isn't really a duality, another example of this mistaken perception, because the wave-particle collapse doesn't happen until a third is introduced.....observation! Awareness, being and now... *poof*....er... *big bang*... manifest existence.

@Nahm Well, awareness and being both take place in a directionless state, a timeless state or to combine those two in the arrow of time doesn't apply, it's in the now. Present moment would be the best directional time phrase to describe it but that still reflects characteristics of something passing that we would be placing attention on, not existing as being aware without the 'wheel spinning'. Awareness, being and now all coexisting in our 'physical manifest observational mind', another phrase that doesn't quite capture the awareness of being aware in being now state thing I'm trying to describe, results in the laughter displayed in that great video posted here even if we don't always gaffaw out loud from the life en joy.

@JustinS I act very much the same way often when I read these posts.... en joy life.

That probably sounded good to you in theory and I don't want to detail every aspect it unravels but simply will point out that I am aware of being.

The mind is the place where endarkenment happens so it's where enlightenment happens.