SOUL

I'm just aware of when someone is regurgitating dogmatic understanding without having genuine awakening experience. Those who have experience don't sidestep, deflect or avoid a question, they can reply with clarity. All your descriptions cannot obscure it to one who can see with a clarity that comes genuine experience. There's not much benefit to question someone this way unless they are really awake because then it's clear to them what is being pointed to. Haha

Then why did you say that there is imaginary thought story? So imaginary thought story is an imaginary thought story.... that is no such thing. Of course, that doesn't answer the question, I didn't ask what is it, I asked what isn't it. So if it is nothing then everything isn't an imaginary thought story. Hmmmmm, you may want to get your (imaginary thought) story straight. Or do you want to actually answer it? Please proceed.

Well, "spiritual bypassing' is an imaginary thought story, too, but please explain, what do you suggest isn't an imaginary thought story?

Which bring us back to the point.... you are telling people their imaginary thought stories are nothing and your imaginary thought stories are everybody's something. This is your imaginary thought story yet you are suggesting it's an absolute truth, a universal truth for everyone and a truth for the universe. It may be your truth because you trust it to be true and empower it to be your truth through behaving in accordance with this belief but it's just your imaginary thought story. Our imagination defines the interaction with the physical world and our identity in the physical world because our perception of it is created and filtered through the imagination but the physical world itself isn't dependent on our imagination to exist...no matter how much you meditate on it, it's just how we perceive it. That is quite the complicated imaginary thought story you got there.

Another imaginary thought story......

'Absolute truth' is just another imaginary thought story to believe in.

@Identity Yea, so often I see people saying about the spiritual path one 'can't' or 'only' or 'must' and this sets up limiting beliefs for their own spiritual path but isn't universally trie or really a requirement. It's a self constructed obstacle preventing them being it presently that they need to overcome to 'attain' it. The ego loves to set up the system so there are methods, techniques and processes to 'accomplish' a 'goal'. Being at peace is something we are being, not doing and the ego isn't getting its desire to be justified in building an identify around it. When we believe what the ego has created we empower it to be our truth even if it is preventing our liberation.

It does seem as if her own beliefs are preventing her from being at peace with where she is at presently and holding her back from what she sees as a previous state of awakening. At least from your account of the discussion. So you might be accurately saying it's her limiting beliefs that are the source of this because the spiritual life is imaginary and how we envision it will effect our experience of it. It's not that something is objectively true or false with the spiritual path but if we trust it is true, which is the definition of belief, our spiritual life will behave as if it is true, we have empowered it to be our truth.

@electroBeam You tell everyone they are lost in their own created imaginary thought stories then go on to describe how your own created imaginary thought story is what it really is for everyone..... interesting. That's quite a thought story you have created in your imagination which you believe really is for everyone. Hm

I'm going to address the topic of 'awakening as awareness' as the 'ultimate goal'. Aside from the fact that the idea of an 'goal' is a self interested motivation, which doesn't mean it's bad or wrong, it's just that what it is. Eating is a self interest motivated goal, there are plenty of 'goals' that fall into this variety of pursuits. An 'ultimate goal' I'm going to surmise is one of ultimate importance, or a supreme pursuit. As far as 'awakening as awareness' as an ultimate one that is a matter of interpretation or preference, there is no authority to anoint it as such. That this 'no-self' just 'awakening to awareness' conceptual paradigm being anything other than your own perspective and preference isn't substantiated as any absolute truth. As someone who has explored this in my own experience I can attest there's nothing more 'absolute truth' about it, it's an imaginary concept. Even if there is perspective to be had in this imaginary paradigm of consciousness in reality it is also can serve as a denial of what is at all levels of experience. Just because one has a view from this perspective doesn't mean it is the absolute truth and the physical doesn't exist or isn't real. An acceptance of all experience in physical, emotional, intellectual and consciousness is the holistic approach even if one chooses to form their paradigm of beliefs from a portion of this experience or from all of it. A one-ness perspective wouldn't deny or dismiss any part of the whole since it is all one. Also, things like happiness, peace, fulfillment, bliss, joy or any of these types of descriptions of something we would experience are byproducts of our inner life. They result from the environment of our inner life and may not necessarily be in accordance to the circumstance of our outer life. Liberation is the cessation of self suffering and those things like peace, joy and bliss are an expression of liberation. In my experience anything that doesn't contribute to this presence of being can serve to be a distraction from it. Something to consider.

What to do from being complete and fulfillment? Everything. It's not about 'what' specific thing to do.... it's that no matter what you do do, it is done in fulfillment and being complete. Chop wood, carry water before realizing liberation, chop wood, carry water after liberation. Liberation empowers everything with fulfillment so transcend the 'mental state' of it and realize the 'being' it.

It's interesting how much description and belief there is about the 'imaginary'....haha.

There definitely is a difference between a standard one has based on conceptual understanding which isn't a lived experience compared to the lived experience expression in awakening but even if it is the awakening experience it still is a perception and not necessarily an accurate assessment.

@mandyjw Well, there's different ways in interpreting the nanosecond 'judgment' one could make. There's the 'gut instinct' one where it comes from conditioning from our past experiences, it's subconscious but this doesn't necessarily make it an accurate assessment. There's also the 'intuitive' one where it suggests a 'spiritual' aspect to it that transcends just the conditioning of the physical which includes psychology but again this doesn't necessarily make it an accurate assessment, either. Of course, some may say there is an even more transcendent one where someone fully awakened would view it with genuine clarity but even still this conceptual belief doesn't necessarily make it an accurate assessment.

It depends on what one defines as 'rigged' but when the Democratic party does everything it can to stack the process against Bernie including closing polling places in areas he had a clear advantage to gain more percentage points in tight contests making it harder for his supporters to actually vote. Not to mention the media doing everything it can to craft a negative narrative about Bernie in attacking everything about him including his supporters which really does influence undecided voters about whether they want to be painted in that way themselves. Then other candidates do everything they can to block him from potential delegates to win it outright with a majority it does make one consider that word could be apropos to the situation. Yet, that doesn't mean they actually cheated the vote count which would be election 'fraud' as opposed to what one could just consider 'rigged'. Of course, that does not erase what you suggest about their ability to transcend the things that would prevent them from being ready for such a transformation.

In awakening quite often the clarity we view our own self with also exists with how we view others but it may not be as complete of a transformation immediately so it will be a benefit to your path to discern whether you are seeing others in the clarity of awakening or the veil of ego.

You could have pointed out that humans are a social animal that relies on building healthy relationships with the group so is 'love' based interactions but modern society has alienated us from our natural behaviors and explains why there are so many that need therapy to cope with the suffering. If your therapist doesn't understand this simple materialist explanation of that obvious current dynamic then maybe they aren't the proper therapist for you. You should also refrain from calling a disagreement an 'argument' because words can be a powerful influence on how the mind frames events.

The Democratic establishment and elites would rather have Trump as President instead of Bernie because it secures their place in the power structure while shielding them from any real scrutiny about their roles in oppressing anyone who isn't in their class. The bonus to the Trump Presidency is that they get to blame Trump for everything while they appear to be the 'resistance' and 'good' in comparison to him as well as cash in through all the fund raising they will do under the facade. That goes for the media, too, they are making bank on this circus.

The only chance Biden has is if the anti-Trump sentiment is so strong it drives up record turnout to get him out of office but it will have little to nothing to do with Biden the candidate and more about Trump the person. Trump will expose his weaknesses but Biden wasn't going to turn the diehard Reps or Trumpist fanatical base anyway, it would be new voters or averse ones. The only way Bernie would get the nomination was to win it outright or be close enough to the majority with such a large margin of lead over anybody else it would have been blatantly obvious it was stolen from him but anything relatively close between 2 or 3 candidates wouldn't work to that effect and imho super Tuesday all but ended that possibility. All that this shows me is how blinded people are to the reality of what's really going on in life and that they prefer to believe in the fairy tale stories the media or supposed 'authority' figures tell them or they follow the herd of popular opinion. Of course, this isn't surprising because it also reflects the nature of most people's inner life and not just the way they behave in their outer life.

I guess it's another 4 years of Trump along with more bigoted stacked judiciary for decades which ends with ecological collapse and billions of people worldwide suffering as humanity's population dramatically shrinks for the first time in eons. Not that it's sure that Bernie could have stopped any of this but he is the only hope to significantly address it and the only one that could beat Trump because Biden is a mumbling, bumbling shell of his former corrupt self living off Obama 'glory'. If I didn't have inner peace and liberation I'd have justification to be concerned but my well being isn't dependent on appealing and favorable circumstances. The world will only become increasingly anathema to those that are seeking healing. Do the inner work to find peace and liberation my friends because there's not much help coming from the outside. I've been watching and waiting for decades and it's only getting further from realization apart from inner life.

People in super Tuesday primaries get out and vote.... people who have upcoming primaries get out and early vote so you can avoid the lines and any potential issues with other proof requirements, you can always go back the another day if you need something else. I'm early voting today myself.... the establishment is lining up behind a guy who can't even form complete sentences, constantly forgets what he's saying in the middle of saying it and routinely tells people to vote for someone else...they'd rather lose to Trump but keep their power than to stand up for the people. If you want affordable health care, living wages, educational opportunities and an empowerment of the working, middle class and the 99% then there is only one candidate to vote for, everyone else is corporate bought out and I'm not even being hyperbolic. Bern the system!

Woah....Godwinian Host Chris Matthews to 'retire'..... he tried to take down Bernie and wound up destroying his long and storied career in the twilight of it.... Flava Flav kicked out of Public Enemy for his cease and desist letter to the Sanders campaign because fellow members will be performing at a rally in LA using the slogan 'fight the power'.... except Chuck D says that's not the reason but timing after so long is curious. It seems if you go at him all it does is boomerang back at you, just ask Liz and Petey...the force is strong with the Bern.

The 'rigged' part is the super delegates being DNC head Perez appointed party insiders made up of establishment partisans and corporate lobbyists that want to keep the corrupt status quo in place by keeping the Republicrats in power instead of genuine progressives. So let's say there's no majority with Bernie at 45%, Biden 25% and Bloomberg 20% of delegates to push the convention to a second ballot they'll swoop in to hand the nomination to a weaker candidate and literally throw out millions of voters preference so erase the democratic process. By the other lesser centrists dropping out the establishment is hoping that the extra freed votes add percentage points to Biden and Bloomberg enough so they get above the 15% threshold in a few more states so qualify for delegates and take them from Bernie. Both Pete and Amy probably have been promised prime appointments in a potential cabinet and increased power in the Dem party going forward if they dropped out sooner than later so they don't eat up percentage points that don't lead to delegates. If Bernie gets the nomination he controls the direction of the party, can eliminate the super delegates and empower the young justice democrats completely changing the direction of the Democratic party for the next generation and possibly forever.

Social 'privilege' is a cognitive bias shared by enough of a populace that it creates a dynamic in society where there is accepted different treatment of different groups. It doesn't have to rise to be written into law for it to effectively act as 'institutional', either. It takes a sufficiently 'awakened' populace to transcend this discriminatory behavior among it's different groups in all forms and currently it doesn't seem like there are very many places in the world where this exists let alone is probable to happen.

I just noticed that the pic had some background color issues for me to fix