SOUL

The very definition of belief is 'trust that it is true' so whether it's Christianity or any other religious doctrine for someone to believe it is them actually trusting it is the truth. Even the 'truth' on this forum that people believe is them trusting it is true. Their direct experience, their awareness of it, their perception of it, their understanding of it...it's just them trusting it is the 'truth'.

Professing to know what happens to another after death is arrogant as well so does this mean they get their own measure 100 fold for eternity, too? Be aware of what one believes is real because it very well may be real even if it is naught but just an illusion.....

@Someone here The unconscious mind will generate anxiety and worry because it feels threatened by something and it rises to our conscious mind to alert us of this threat which disturbs our peace of mind. One of the things that threatens the mind is anything that threatens identity and sense of self. The very work of detaching from and transcending identity so expanding awareness beyond just the sense of self threatens the mind's natural inclination to preserve identity and sense of self. When your mind generates anxiety and worry then you should celebrate because your work to detach from and transcend identity is bearing fruit so the mind is trying to attract your attention back to your sense of self. It wants you to believe those feelings are valid to justify it's sense of self. It doesn't require deep analysis to find out the source of the anxiety and worry because that's just another way the mind uses to validate the feelings and justify identity. Yes, some may benefit from self analysis but be aware that it can become a fixation and creates more attachment. There may be some challenges to endure along the way yet eventually the unconscious and conscious mind will find a harmony in just being present and we experience 'peace of mind'.

If I am asked to believe his teaching that one creates their own reality of having this power to externally effect things to happen in the manifest and we all do. Then I have to wonder why is he creating the earth's cataclysm? The content is obvious what it is. People are addicted to the imagination of telling the story, an apocalyptic tale of epic endings in all the different flavors of expression. It's not much different than what happens even here with the mind of telling stories. Here the story goes that the epic ending is absolute infinity. We are all god, nothingness is the only thing that exists and everything else is a dream. The end.

@ing your own self to argue about spirituality is about the most internet mysticism thing I ever seen...

I'm not constructing or deconstructing anything, I'm looking at what is. Dualism is a perception of the mind, it's not a thing other than in the mind. It is the human mind that lumps emotions, sentiments and concepts into two 'oppositional' groups. You said non-dual, I didn't because I'm aware that dualism is in the mind so once I transcended dualism in my mind's perception I realized it's not really anything so don't use it to understand my perspective. It's you who is perceiving dualism in the two concepts but are assuming it is my perception and you apparently cannot perceive something other than it. Maybe I can give you some insight to the perspective of the mind that doesn't perceive things in a dualism. When I said 'unhelpful' you probably are seeing that as one side of a dualism with 'helpful' on the other side as if they are opposites. In my mind helpful is an effect, a helping effect but unhelpful is no effect, it's neutral. Along the spectrum of the 'helping' dynamic is hindrance, it's blocking help, we don't perceive it as neutral because it keeps us from help. Now can you see how once the perception of dualism and pairing up things in oppositional poles is transcended it creates more clarity so things can be viewed as they are for what they are. Another issue with dualism perspective is that the oppositional mindset manifests conflict in the mind between the perceived two sides. As well as an exclusivity perception, it's one or the other, it's a challenge to perceive things as a whole or both, it creates division.... the separation. I thought about which word I would use for that pretty long and I chose 'unhelpful' because in my perspective it is neutral not the opposite of helpful, it's the absence of help, not working against help though it appears to be blocking help. If I did have an assumption it would be that people seek to resolve the oppositional perspective and be free from a conflicted mind. Of course dualism would be considered 'helpful' if one wanted to create the oppositional conflicted mind. To bolster the sense of separation and justify identity dualism would be 'helpful' yet this would also create the oppositional and conflicted mind. All we have to do is look at society around us to find the evidence of this, it doesn't take much contemplation to recognize it. This isn't a matter of truth or valid, those concepts are from the perception of dualism and why they came to your mind since you are so keen of fostering the dualism. Yea, I probably shouldn't assume what people really want.

Wow... this kind of turned into a dog pile on Leo. C'mova here brotha and give yourself a big hug....

@Scholar Maybe I should have been more clear and less snarky about how I felt your response was empty of a point since you didn't really say anything. What part of that bolded quote did you think I was making an assumption? That it's unhelpful? That emotions, sentiments and concepts aren't a dualism? Or maybe it is just an assumption of yours that they are a dualism and it's helpful to view them that way so see me saying they aren't and it isn't is seen as an assumption by you?

I have a meditation for this issue... sit quietly and observe the screen of your computer, take notice of the 'X' in the corner of the tab of your internet browser for this website and click the 'X'. Feel better? No? Keep doing it until you do. Your welcome.

You assume it's an assumption.

If you are talking about your own experience why are you projecting it onto others? It's you who cannot stop paying attention to the ego, it's you who are the ego, it's you that tried it for years, it's you who is frustrated and for you it does not work. Although, if you cannot strop paying attention to the ego and you believe you are the ego it explains why you 'tried' those things for years, were frustrated and it didn't work. Yes, my experience is different and I wouldn't suggest it if I didn't have success with it. If you continue to pay attention to it and believe you are the ego then I would say that wasn't what I am suggesting. Even the common forum perspective on this is we aren't the ego, it's an illusion, is very different than than so it appears your experience differs from even that. If that works for you then so be it. Though, I suspect you are still dealing with your ego since you are still saying you are the ego.

If you cannot do something it is your limiting beliefs that make it so and has no influence over what someone else can or can't do. Also all the rest of the typical forum rhetoric has been addressed by me and if you didn't even read the post you cut up to quote me let alone any of the other stuff I already covered it all with I'm not sure repeating myself will help. Did you read this part when you cut it away? "The story will be 'let go' of...by not taking hold of it." To be clear any attention one gives the ego is exactly what it desires...attention...and that justifies it's identity. As many have testified on this forum about the ego it is also going to hide in the shadows undoubtedly being empowered through someone searching for it to 'dissolve'. I'm not sure the wack-a-mole method of trying to 'dissolve the ego' is the most effective. So, this is why I suggest depriving it of what empowers it, attention. Treat the ego like the story it creates.... by doing nothing. I do not react in any way to all the mind creates to capture our attention in generating identity. That's the simple straight forward approach I use with success, no complicated or intricate techniques or methods. Don't feed the beast...and keep on not doing anything, just be. Although, I understand that some people think they need more stuff to do and if it works for them then so be it. I'm not going to criticize what works for them but I always suggest the simple approach first... do nothing and keep doing nothing, eventually the beast starves to death.

Emotions and other sentiments aren't divided in dualism, they are independent of each other but can also combine at the same time on things. Plenty of people have love and fear simultaneously about partners or children and such. Your point about choosing gratitude is a good one but it's unhelpful to see emotions, sentiments and concepts as an either one or the other dualism paradigm since they aren't really that way in how they get expressed in us.

It's ok to appreciate the story, to enjoy the story but being attached to the story, identifying with the story and using it as justification is what leads to self suffering. Watch it like a movie.... you can watch a movie and really enjoy it without being attached to it, right? Like that. Oh and many therapists have no clue what to do with the nondual idea, instead frame it as cognitive behavioral therapy(CBT) and they will have a better understanding to work with you.

So you are saying that as long as you continue to agree with the ego you are the story? You basically supported what I said but said it as if you don't...Did you not understand what I was saying? Yes.... stop agreeing with the ego about the story.

Which brings us back to the topic of the thread... how to let go of the story? My suggestion would be to observe in the most indirect way we can the 'story' and it's constituent parts rising up from the subconscious mind into awareness of the conscious mind but just do nothing. Don't try to resist it, erase it, negate it, replace it, explain it, retrain it or anything. Don't react to the story in any way, I would suggest to not even give it any special attention of any kind. We will have some awareness of the story and the sensations the mind creates to call attention to it but be transparent to it's influence. Give it nothing to stick to. Be aware that you aren't 'ignoring' it because that even implies that there is something there to ignore and turn away from. We aren't validating or invalidating it, we just don't have any re-action to it at all. This way it isn't empowered to be a source of influence in our consciousness. Eventually the story will fade into just something that isn't a distraction from being present in the moment and awareness will simply will be free to transcend the story. The story will be 'let go' of...by not taking hold of it.

@Tim R This particular social dynamic isn't exclusive to this forum and it's not just commonplace in social groups but a fixture of socialization. It takes an especially vigilant awareness to dissolve the attachment to and transcend the story no matter how acceptable or even foundational it is to the social group one is in.

Oh, I get it but what I absolutely get and what you think I should get according to your story are two completely different things. Maybe you will get that eventually.

"Liberation is the end of the attachment" Liberation is the cessation of self suffering, attachment is the dynamic in our consciousness that causes self suffering. Recognizing this dynamic in us is sufficient for the dissolution of attachment without the requirement of a story. "there is no one there in which could be attached in the first place" This is introducing just another conceptualization that is added by the one that seeks to define itself even if it defines itself as nonexistent. We can simply dissolve our attachment to the story without using another story. According to your story there is no one disagreeing with and no one being disagreed with so why are you imagining that there is disagreement? It appears you don't even realize your own story, it's just ideological rhetoric that isn't genuine experience because if it was there would be no perception of disagreement since there isn't any, it's an illusion. Why add another story when it's not needed to dissolve attachment to a story? The thread starter is seeking to let go of the story and giving them another story is just story shifting.

@VeganAwake You know those Christians who think their interpretation of the bible is the only one that will save you and anything else sends you to hell? They even think other Christian churches aren't interpreting the bible right, that those others aren't really Christians and are going to hell. They alone possess the truth and it's as they say not any other way. There's a certain mindset behind that type ideological intolerance that doesn't allow someone to accept that someone else can have another way to what think they have gotten to themselves. It really does speak about the amount of complete trust in one's own experience to blind someone to the possibility of a variety of experience and perspectives being valid alternatives. On this forum if someone lines up their words right, says things a certain way and has the proper rhetoric it's pretty simple to get positive feedback and appear to have a level of credibility regardless of whether they have any genuine experience or not. There's a formulaic approach that can be feigned and it takes someone who has genuine experience to discern the difference. Almost 40 years ago I began my journey to free myself from self suffering but it was years later I had began to circulate with mystical minded people in real life and it was after I had already had deep awakening experiences. So my experience and perspective with my inner work wasn't informed conceptually by others to the degree I see in most people in these communities. This created a distinctly different approach to it for me and how I describe it. That has presented me with many instances where others doubt my experience, try to teach me the 'true' way and tell me I will only get it after I have experience the way they do. It happened often in real life and it happens just as much if not more online. Although, my autodidact path has allowed me to be open to the diversity of paths people can express with inner work. When I discuss with others I find myself drawn towards seeing through their perspective more than I am to having them see through my own. There is nothing better or more right about this attitude but after of decades of interacting I find it effective in communicating with others. Ultimately it all started for me as seeking the cessation of self suffering and it still is only about that. Well being is the primary focus and it's not about having all the descriptions line up just right or the same as others or of notables in the spiritual world. My path has also allowed me to explore consciousness in many diverse ways and not be hindered by ideological priming from others. Yet, through having an interest in others perspective I meditate on them and explore them through the methods I use in my own experience I often get deep insights about them without the constraints of precedent understanding. So many times I can get a perspective in clarity that others don't always have the ability to perceive in clarity because of the precedent understanding. My apologies if it seems like I'm in disagreement with your perspective, this isn't the case, I genuinely understand it as deeply as one can and I appreciate all perspectives because I'm aware that all stories are included in the whole of the infinite absolute so am embracing of the diversity of paths in it. I invite you to share in that perspective, it's quite liberating.

@VeganAwake I know it sounds unreal to you but people have other direct experience of awakening than you, yes, there are others who awaken and it isn't as you describe it. Again, I understand how people can get attached to their own story and are sure it's the only one that is the true description. If there is the depersonalized awakening experience there is also the full personalized experience and every degree of personalized and non-personalized experience in between. The absolute infinite includes everything and nothing as a whole which appears as one. I am well aware you aren't peddling a new better experience, you are peddling your own direct experience as if it's the only one that can possibly be true. If you didn't believe it's the only one that can be true you wouldn't have resistance to that others might not have the same as yours. Attachment is the limiting dynamic on our awareness, it's what creates the sensation of separation. The difference in the description, the story, is not what creates the sensation, it's attachment. Attachment to self, the identification with self is what limits our experience of awakening. So as one would dissolve the attachment to and identification with self it would appear to some as if the self dissolves as well. Some people require this sensation and appearance of dissolution of self as realized experience to trust that their awakening is 'true', that it is 'real'....but not everyone does. The attachment to awakening being just one certain description of the experience may be limiting the experience of awakening, even preventing the experience of awakening or becoming an obstacle if the realization of being presence. It's leading some to be attached to the specific description from another, someone else's story, not allow their own direct experience to unfold in the way that it will. They become attached to someone else's story and description which may limit or prevent their own awakening experience. Although, it's understandable why people are so convinced their own direct experience is the 'true' one and explains why they attempt to tell others that it is the way it has to happen and be.

@VeganAwake Attachment to one's own story limits the ability to realize that one's own direct experience isn't everyone's direct experience. When your reply is saying that it's the way I describe it so it will be the way I describe it that reveals it is your own perspective that is limiting awareness of the infinite potential of experience. There are infinite stories and simultaneously somebody/nobody/everybody experiencing them. People tend to have a preference for the one that helps them and this can create an attachment to it. A belief is 'trusting that something is the true' so if one trusts their their own direct experience is true then that is their belief. This is just what the word is, you are welcome to disagree with it but it is what it is. When someone is exposed to certain concepts quite often their perspective expresses in the way that they have been conceptually primed to interpret the experience as.

So you know what awakening is for everyone who experiences it and it's your story of it? Are you attached to the story there is no one to experience the story because are you aware that the infinite potential of the absolute includes all stories including there is everyone to experience it? Awakening is also the infinite fulfillment of I am experience if it is the end of personalized experience of it. It has everything to do with well being and the bliss of well being does influence behavior.

The story isn't the stumbling block, the attachment to the story is the obstacle to being present now. Don't replace one story for another story and think anything has changed if there is attachment to the new story because presence is still being limited by the identification to a story. The story of 'I am nothing' is no different than the story of 'I am something' if one is attached to the story. The story of the separate identity is no more of a hindrance to being than the story of no self because being transcends all stories even if the mind creates another story about it. Yes, 'no story' is another story about the story but all stories are empty of any power in us when our being isn't disturbed by the stories and awareness isn't distracted by the stories so awakening isn't limited by them and our consciousness transcends them.

Let's go Brandon!!! ....and I mean that in the genuine encouragement of you way not the other way being bandied about lately...