ValiantSalvatore

@now is forever There are even biological differences in extroverts and introverts. This is a scientific explanation. MBTI and other typologies are just a map they are good for reflection, yet the map is not the territory... Big 5 aspects, for instance, is scientifically accepted and gave me more insights into my moral and emotional behaviors and drives as political views. While MBTI helped me more to deal with people and do not categorize them the way society does it while giving me gigantic insights into my ego self or for a more neutral term gestalt. Also, how to deal with differences in personality combining mbti and big 5 is just nuts. It's like especially when u trust ur sense... or intuitive hunches perceived by senses ... u know more why people behave that way without getting to know their whole story. It's like you understand now why people differ so much without needing to find reasons why you have a more accurate map and you can figure out the territory way greater. When I read this when I was young, I was shocked how true these things are about myself, also why I feel so different on a "psychological" or mental level from others made a lot of sense. Just by my type. For instance JP demonizes it saying it's not accurate while having read jung etc. So, I am also skeptical. Yet, open to the idea since it gave a lot of insights to what people might do not know. For instance, there is neuroscience with mbti. But, like how can I tell that is true. Also, there are ambiverts. Nobody mentioned some.

@Nivsch Even animals eat animals. Like humans kill humans. We are animals or come from them. Our behavior is even similar to chimpanzees and bonobos. Yes, racial ideology is gruesome. It was even introduced by famous philosophers IIRC Kant or someone else. Creating a racial categorization or saying, for instance, the black man can only be free in slavery. Depending on how circumstances where and the details of this small excerpt or quote, he could be right, otherwise, the person could be shot or killed or was haunted. In that sense. I never read much about the subject I read the quote somewhere. Animals depending on how you view it are not equal, on a spiritual level potentially. Yet, not as a living and functioning creature you can't for instance, say a goldfish is more sophisticated than a dolphin. Or a hornet is as equal as a bee. In that term it's relative, yet you have to consider that relative means something is related to something. So, a hornet is potentially as equal as a bee ... in terms of regarding it (holding it in a relative perspective) that it is an insect. But, for the environment and the globe, the bee could potentially provide more value because it produces honey and pollinates flowers. Yet, the hornet might kill small insects who could harm the environment. So, in context or in a relative perspective the bee and the hornet have different types of values and functions, so they are not equal. As their "right" as insects they may be equal, yet not as how they provide value. In that sense, humans are not equal to animals. Animals have their own rights and should have their own rights. Yet, we are also animals. Like we have a mammal part of our brain that is named mammal part because we are mammals. Imagine the human race contacts some alien force and the alien force are corrupt humans how have already technically advanced themselves and are fully automated humanoid robots. They don't need to eat, they don't need to sleep, they just need to maintain their functionality and the order of the outer planet/structure where they are living. Would they see us as equal? If they are superior in every sense.

That's what I thought... a planetary process ...

@Ponder How would you describe stage coral?

@CreamCat Yeah, that's the joke. Watch Eckhart Tolle saying this. I wanted to buy the book MeinKampf, yet I totally forgot this.

@CreamCat Heinrich Himmler read that bhadvagitta. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/9098525/Nazi-leader-Heinrich-Himmler-a-fan-of-yoga.html Hitler was a vegetarian and tried to convince people of stopping to eat meat because of animal cruelty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler_and_vegetarianism Leave good old Hitti alone. He only had one testicle.

@Shiva I feel often that stage green just wants to have to moral upper hand, someone who comes more from a yellow perspective will for instance stick to their diet. Because they see it as "functional" and can take care of their environment including stage green personal and collective moral values, also will not try to force their viewpoint on to you or demonize you for eating meat. Ideally, a stage yellow vegan/vegi will explain the effects of eating meat, for the environment etc, stating statistics, news reports, documentaries etc. Stage green may take care of the animals and is aware of factory farming. But will crusade and convince and manipulate, since they view their moral viewpoint as superior. Ideally, they can rationally explain it, including systemic repercussion. Yet, many are just hippsters, they don't do that for years and stick for instance to a vegan diet. They just go with the hype and are relative about their food intake. You will most likely not get an answer like what vitamins does green salad have, carrots etc. The nutrition aspect is almost completely forgotten and mostly moral reasons. imo. Stage turquoise is including the spiritual aspect not only the environmental. For e.g sadghuru eating vegetarian, not crusading explaining even the spiritual reasons behind it. You hear him talk about the body as a system, agriculture as a system etc. explaining it in somehow "yellow" terms depending on how "rational" yellow is. Not sure how far this goes but this is the best explanation I can come up with, after being vegan and veggi chatting also with people who switched diets and meeting non-dogmatic veggies and vegans. For instance my aunt is dogmatic, but as soon as it is somehow against her way of living it is explained away to keep up a moral façade/front/high ground. Read Susan cook greuters paper or skim it to understand the self line. I don't think many people have done it here...(She is from Switzerland )

@d0ornokey Yellow: would be about only functionality of food, quality of food, calories, vitamins. Not in an orange perspective of oh it is useful, let's eat it! Yet, in terms of how does this affects my body, how does it affect my feelings, do I contribute to factory farming, global warmth etc? Is it useful to eat it then, potentially there are alternatives and options to choose which do not harm the spiral. Or maybe I just hide inside it and eat what I want, but go vegan/veg with the ideologue social justice warriors or explain it away! So, potentially tailoring a diet that fits one's unique situation from all the options and alternatives out there. Also, steadily adapting that. For e.g I want high performance, I want to eat ethically not ideological, I want to eat what I want and enjoy life, I want to eat healthy etc. Then seeing the systems in systems in it how functional is it to eat what I want, what does it contain, how does it affect me. How is it delivered? Who produced it in the first place. A person at yellow would never force ones nutritional dogma onto another person, he may try carnivore diet, goes vegan then, eats pescetarian, becomes a flexitarian, then a veggie and finally becomes food himself and is eaten! Most likely yellow also wants high-quality food that is functional without all the "fluff", for instance, superfoods and smoothies that have high calories and are healthy, ideally tasty. Not sure if taste plays a role at yellow, yet I find other stages are quite obsessed with food. Saying food makes me happy ( it is one of the activities that makes humans the happiest IIRC) or people who can't hold themselves back, saying there is nothing better than eating! I love food etc. Yellow might still be really really into food but is a bit more detached from the food craziness. IMO Turquoise would be more: Will I solve global issues with my food intake? Do I want to be part of the problem or the solution? Does the solution work if we work together holistically in communion? What food can I buy to contribute to help the world holistically, in my mind, body, external systems of food production, small farmers, shops and what not. What is spiritual food, will it make me feel more connected to the divine? How can food express spirituality? Do I just eat mindfully? Or is food something to be worshipped in a sense. + Yellow perspective of functionality and health.

Would everything not be a partial truth. The question is what is absolute? In that sense or what is true, that can be observed from different perspectives 1 Person, 2, 3. To prove some truth of another objective. Even with the photon. In a state of "superposition". If there is no observer who can tell the thing observed is existing in an absolute state since it is always changing. Then there would be no absolute proof? How can one even tell the photon is in a state of superposition when it always changes when it is observed? Who did the observation in the first place to claim the superposition exists which is the state of "non-observation"? Is it not similar to the "paradox" who guards the guards? Same with the 1. person perspective of a guru saying he is levitating if there would be an absolute truth a state of superposition. The guru is levitating by his claims(subjective reality) and not levitating in objective reality. What resolves a paradox? Or does one have to consider always both in case of uncertainty? Even if this would be partially true because I am claiming here who can argue with one's subjective reality, like the photon being an ass and doing both when not observed. (Inside the sun taking million years to produce a sunray IIRC!) Let's say the guru is trying to pontificate something by saying he is levitating! he could be internally free saying he is levitating meaning his subjective experience is true. Yet, objectively it is always false, which would be the second person or the observation. So from an absolute 1. Person perspective there is nothing wrong. Which each perspective it most likely gets only more complex. 3rd Person could be edited so he is actually levitating. No idea a partial truth gives a clue to a more whole truth, using the whole Wilberian lingo, to explain this. So, when an observation has some partial truth it will ultimately lead to a more whole truth, potentially it remains partially at some level and becomes more whole on another. Weird example in vipassana from what I've heard... the end goal will be to crack the habit of the observer observing itself. Like there is no meta realm... anymore. You would reach an absolute and resolve a paradox?

I try to pick them up as well as I can and adapt. Depending on what I do for instance traveling, I did lying meditation since I was uncomfortable meditating there on a chair. So, I looked for how to keep myself awake. Same goes for long train rides, where I had to share a cabin. I definitely would plan in advance which habits, to keep and which to change. For instance, during my internship in London, I wanted to work out more and went for 5k runs approx. after work. 3-4 times a week. Since gyms were too expensive. When you go for an early weekend trip, you can still stand up 30 min earlier if you have to go in the morning and do a 30 min meditation, at night a 30 min meditation then also. If you have a practice for 1h. Potentially, using similar cues. For instance currently, I always have my bag packed for the gym, leaving the dirty clothes (yes) on the chair, since I will use them again anyway. So, my shoes, etc are in there and I've been able to maintain a gym routine now with traveling back home. Scheduling tasks in advance can also help. I use a bullet journal and sketch out my day and ideally a week. Setting time blocks. It's a rough guideline and writing it stuff down helps. I also struggle with consistency when I hit setbacks, depression, etc, last year was the first year in 3 years where I did not meditate daily, for a couple of weeks (also to test it..), for approx 2 months total, a week there, etc. When I did a 14day meditation retreat in a Zen temple, some people maintained their studying habit if the places allow it and it is important to you. Go ahead, I wanted to have the full experience and did not use my phone for 14 days.

I liked meditating and setting intentions before, I also used my journal and wrote down intentions and a guideline for how the trip should proceed. I would also recommend a low dose at the beginning, I noticed that I could do more after that and there is no real rush to anything, especially when one takes time off. Also, on a low dose doing formal meditation for the normal amount of time, one would usually do it is a good idea. It is good for seeing the potential how powerful this substance (mainly I tested LSD) is. Also, doing it during daylight and early in the morning, preparing food and stuff in advance a bit. Potentially psychedelics and darkness do not mix, so to sniffle a bit into the darkness when a trip last 8-12h IIRC, could also be good. Yet, I would cross-reference and definitely use psychonaut wiki and erowid to see all the effects, so you could even go for one specific experience, by setting intentions. Also, to have a clue how visual phenomena are being experienced, they have some very cool gifs.

@Joseph Maynor A user on this forum sent a great e-book about dating that is more in accordance with david deida, the way of superior men and does not emasculate without the pickup stuff and the book basically demonizes pick up a bit and explains why it does not work to a degree. I generally feel women have less ego, yet they define their ego in terms of their social relationships and their relationships. Men are obviously, more attached to their work and material things, status, and power. It thinks it goes both ways, that the ego is just differently expressed in more societal terms, in order to have a chance to not be demonized by a societies standards, which is also counteracted by individualism nowadays. Or collectives standing up for smth. see feminism. Yet, still, I often feel that her ego becomes yours. Which is odd to deal with. Considering what I read years ago in a spiritual perspective from the Varadarajan or thunderbolt tradition in Tibet. Is that women often embody wisdom on the spiritual path, and men are doing the spiritual path. Which with all the talk, yoga seems to fit better for women since it is more feminine in nature like nature. I generally would say women would have an advantage even in the spiritual path because they are more sensitive, yet this is also a hindrance or could be. For instance, women who project their emotional attachments are horrible, yet a woman who is more attuned with her emotional side, can also be more masculine. Meaning she becomes more feminine and therefore is more comfortable in the masculine. So, at a stage yellow emotional line or even gender identity line. (Integral Psychology). The difference between ego expression diminishes, yet should also be expressed in a more healthy way. Depending on the nature of the person. So, a man can rely more on the masculine side of things and slip into the feminine and be caring, vulnerable and emotional, while she does the work. And I take care of the children. So, there is a constant role swapping even in parenting I assume. So, anything under stage yellow is expressed more in a dichotomy of the feminine and masculine. While higher stages most likely transcend it altogether. Biologically, depending on how the person is wired, I assume women still become more egoic, about caring and become more possessive of bonds between social relationships. Yet, even these changes nowadays with hormone injections and what not. Men, most likey dominate, want power, seen as strong, status, put others down, compete. So, I would say their ego goes more into a way of grandiosity and status, outcome and product of work, effort, and abilities. Still, this also counts for women, yet I feel men are more expressive of their ego in that way. HEY look what I can do! P.S Gender union is described as becoming one with the gross releam of creatrix. But these words do not make sense even when I translate them.

Inattentive is being distracted easily, missing that people are talking to you, bad memory and inability to recall, so missing keys stuff like this. Hyperactive is being unstable, constantly wanting to move, moving one leg up and down constantly, can't sit still, talks fast, and people. Is that correct? For a general description of ADHD for these two types. I don't know how it affects him, he seemed quite sensitive so I refrained from asking stuff like this. Can you send a link to the machine? Sure, I am constantly looking for some ways, yet networking in uni is pointless according to advice from cal Newport. Attending events is something else. Interesting, I watched videos and found one studio that is not a sect. I also looked into sadghurus programms, would love to go to India for 5 months to learn yoga hardcore, because of having a support structure hence building an infrastructure. Works very well for me. Also, from the description above gives me more "reasons" to do hatha yoga. It's quite unfortunate that nothing seems to work, hopefully, you find something! Did you really never try a do-nothing technique?

@kieranperez Is the adaptation not better as when stuff is normal or baseline? Or is it better without any kind of nootropic add. Meditation for 1h definitely helped, I broke my schedule to two times 30 min a day which is somehow not that effective for monkey mind. Did you ever try a do-nothing technique for some time? I bet this soudn stupid when reading.

@kieranperez Sounds legit. In case you have not tried bacopa you could give it a shot. Potentially it can help since it is not a synthetic component and would not mix as much with the synthetic stuff, it's an adaptogen. So, it also reduced stress and or rather increases stress resistance. Also, effects of adaptogens can overlap which nullifies the effect one specific effect other effects do work. ( lions mane, bacopa, ginseng most likely etc. are adaptogens) Bacopa definitely can/could help be an aid, and the effects are long term even without bacopa? Not sure if IIRC. Yet, the hold long if you take them for longer then 8-12 weeks. I do not recall the study/paper anymore. Yes, I did read that, I know someone who took addreal or how this stuff is written and he is the best person in our courses, even though he played video games in class etc. He often worked at night and he was industrious, I don't know him well though. So, I don't know if it bothers him. Yet, I assume it does not. He is also dyslexic. Still, very intelligent guy. Our crazy performance prof hired him lol. Would be very cool if you find an affordable device, I looked into the topic yesterday. I also heard the very good devices are just not affordable. Also, yoga sounds very cool. I would love to get into yoga, but this small town here is just horrendous. Does yoga help against add? If yes why?

@kieranperez Lion's mane and bacopa moonerie are supposed to help. I don't have ADHD, my teacher who had ADHD once asked me if I had it, because I seemed to be so inattentive. I tried both, in case you forget a lot bacopa can definitely help, it takes a while though before the effects kick in 8-12 weeks, and the baccosid percentage has to be somewhere of 35% to 55%. I read through the studies. As well as I can. Lions mane can work immediately, it was not very effective for me, l-theanine a bit more. Yet, I don't know if it works with dealing with ADHD, Lions mane most likely can't hurt. Here is also a different perspective of ADD and do-nothing meditation. I did a retreat for 14 days last year in the soto-zen lineage. After that I felt processes were more streamlined and I was not so troubled by monkey mind. I tried the technique also at home, for some time. I had the deepest experiences with this technique so far, even during LSD trips, so it could aid both, a path to enlightenment and dealing with ADD. It is supposed to also be the quick and dirty way to enlightenment. According to this teacher. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNV6Y_JlhoA I bought a stack of nootropics that seem high quality but are cheap price wise. To deal with inattentiveness, I will write a report when I am done testing them, yet this is mostly for the inattentive type of ADHD, and has caffeine in it.

@universe What kind of meditation do you practice? I looked into the Sedona method, it's not what I meant, it seems more a self-inquiry technique, yet not a fundamental principle of a visualization technique.

@now is forever Sure, I won't I often find that creativity shines there. It should be somewhere on the 4 charts where the motivations are described of each vMeme.

@now is forever This is mainly what I have in mind after reading the chart yesterday and all the audiobooks. I ordered the older version of spiral dynamics from don beck. The audiobook version is quite unsatisfying if you want to have some juicy details, the author even mentions that in the audiobook. What are hybrids? Theory and practicality combined? Sure, purposefully driven stage red drives for creative means can be nice. Yet, I really would like to know what creativity is in that regard. When I see musicians it or I just listen to instrumentals of music, I can see and feel stage red often. Same for sports, or when I listen to people talk/explain. It's quite funny when stage blue get's mad at stage red during a soccer game.

@now is forever I can see why, stage red is associated with unconstrained creativity. Or with creativity. Spiral Dynamics in Action presents that as that. In one chart.

@Charlotte https://integrallife.com/the-3-2-1-shadow-process/ The video explains the process very well. Also, it shows the talking chair method. Which the 3-2-1 method is based on with a partner even. The sign-up for 30 days only is worth it. I used to do it and was cheap, now I am a member of the forum there. https://integralchurch.wordpress.com/2013/10/05/3-2-1-shadow-process/ Explains the process very well. This is what I started with. I still anticipate that psychedelics and shamanic breathing are the best way, yet the 3-2-1 process most likely is the safest. @now is forever I'd love to give a more elaborate answer, I have to go soon. I notice this tendency of being perfect is especially, in Germany now a bit more common under millennials. Near my city, a military base is stationed with 50k Americans largest base outside of u.s. So, I see a lot of orange/green, blue/orange people in "my" region from the American culture. Which explains a bit the perfect, excellence, discipline paradigm for me. Especially, with Instagram nowadays and the internet. What I meant to say is I have similar tendencies, about perfection you see something perfect a couple, a financial situation, intelligence you name it literally. Shadow work can unearth some of these tendencies, especially with loving-kindness it helps. I used to be very jealous of other people with very cool cars, even if I do not like cars that much. I did tong-leng and whished them happiness, and was happy instead for them. Only for 5-10 minutes a day for 1 and a half years or so. This worked wonders. / quite well. What is the book about? I watched a couple of series from Ken Wilber about shadow and other YouTubers. + Audiobooks where it is often mentioned

@Joseph Maynor From watching a videos and listening to audiobooks and series where shadow work is mentioned or a topic. Using the 3-2-1 process which is similar to Fritz Pearls technique or a basically a derivate of gestalt therapy. The link to the exact extraction of the technique from wilber from the original work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestalt_therapy#The_empty_chair_technique. I'd have to read the whole thing to give a technical/detailed analysis. Reading through the original wiki clears things up. imo What I notice is when I project that I am denying qualities and tiny treasures inside myself, behaviors, world views, "stages" in terms of spiral dynamics, situational relating, and so forth. Projection largely for me is the denial of qualities in oneself which have been denied or repressed, as a means of ego survival. Seeing all this in relation shadow work, projection and shadow. As an example in your journal, you posted your big 5 aspects ... so, for instance, I score in the 41 percentile of assertiveness which is below average for a male. Now when I meet people who are very extroverted and assertive, this used to trigger me in the past, I always felt it is disrespectful and cold. But, I admired the audacity and how unabashed extroverted people are. So, I immediately used this in shadow work because it was a trigger from the unconscious and noticed that I project my own unabashed, cold-hearted nature on to them and their way of anger and conflict management, was more of a healthy ego measurement to stand up for one's SELF. Now, when I am being more assertive now after doing shadow work, I am not fearful anymore of saying what I want, saying no, saying yes I care, no I do not care, and basically stopped being a victim, yet my own non-caring attitude or low pivotal point of assertiveness still remains. It's like I have the means to the end, but I have to stick through it through the end with a healthy more integrated low assertive assertiveness mean/s. Which is not always easy, yet helps to resolve conflict with assertive people more easily. Another example is Vulnerability, very emotional people who are vulnerable used to trigger me immensely, and push my own emotional buttons, even in a healthy manner hurts and still hurts today. Depending on how sensitive the person is. I projected my own denied qualities of caring and caretaking on to them, seeing them as irrational, weak or unable to assess competence since they are so fluffy. Now, I found my own fluffiness through shadow work and the projected qualities of being irrational and weak, and unable to assess competence even comes in handy. For instance consider the dunning-krugger effect the most sensitive person has the most potential to see this IMO, see any INFP. Being irrational gives me more leeway to talk crap and not feel the need to be the expert 24/7 and felt like I am able to chisel concepts in a free-floating manner more easily. It's like building sky castles. It does not exist, yet it was constructed somewhere, even if not real. This won't really make sense, or IT! TOTALLY does.

Would love to see this. Especially Joe hitting Leo's processor rather vice-versa. Would be interesting to see what ideas both of them craft, and the unfoldment of a discussion of a myriad of topics.