ValiantSalvatore

@itachi uchiha Holons itself. If you want to understand and see more of stage turqouise that is a direct way of doing that. Another example stage turqouise is also again a we oriented spectrum of SD. Turqouise communities are highly conceptual Stage turqouise is very interested and involved into self-transcending practices Activly breaks out of the survival paradigm. etc. The holon episode gives a good viewpoint from what you can read by Wilber. So you don't neccesarily need to read Wilber.

@itachi uchiha Contemplate what a holon is the episodes from Leo about holons is very good. In general anything from spiral dynamics helps as well as from Ken Wilber. Most likely not, yet you will be able to get glimpses and grow into it.

Being online consistently also puts you ontop of the algorithm you are basically rewarded for being online IIRC, this is how tinder works currently.

@Javfly33 I am still running sort of "testing" what works online to not experience a lot of bullshit I can give a general rundown from a course. I am currently in the 47'th day of online dating challenge. I will keep it simple without concepts. I am not the best I am getting better...way better... Something about what was in her profile she mentions she likes golfing,cycling,tattoo,weird t-shirt, weird pose, vacation, values etc. great talk about that. Commonalities I wrote one girl we both have a lactose intolerance and we matched for example. Ask for her number when you basically would also in real life when the conversation is at it's high point, ya'll both have a great time Never call it a date it's a get together of some sort Zoom meets can work you can prepare stuff also and it's a low pressure enviroment for her Some chat longer yet you can ask to meet 3-4 text messages in approx. so you can fitler out the girls who will flake faster you can see for yourself Asking about her schedule is good Generally ask Leo Check out how the algorithm of tinder works tinder and bumble have an elo score Tinder also changed their algorithm to be more lenient Online-dating is a marathon more than a sprint Silent girls can be meet with humour although most of the time she won't be interested (my experience) I can type more depending on the question I am currently implementing still stuff from the course. So these are ideas that can be put to test. I am in no way an expert yet. I am on OkCupid I do think this plattform is great for testing as the algorithm can be bent towards your favour more. Also, you won't be punished for messaging many girls and can test what kind of inital messages work.

@Nahm What do I think about the ideas of sacred masculinity and sacred femininty? I have not been able to partake in a session where I could explore these concepts. --- In general some food for thought. https://medium.com/queen-s-children/the-sacred-masculine-6dd6110c3988#:~:text=So the sacred masculine%2C then,without domination%2C leadership without force.&text=You could say all wars,realize a “masculine” ideal. https://integrallife.com/man-up/ I listend to the talk once, yet in general I find it an odd place to express masculine energy and I did not fully read about it from a sheer energy quality perspective. The full version has a lot of content about shadow, aggresion and healing and that some people eroticise their wounds. Any thoughts on how the be fully masculine without causing harm. I still do think compassion is a superpower in that sense and highly masculine. Especially being able to give gifts of wisdom, direction, clarity, competence etc. Without force etc.

Sorry ya'll really miss the point. @hyruga The provider role is one frame you can play, yet this will work entirely differently in different cultures. Imagine I could have dated one girl who would be fine me marrying her but without sex (me being the provider -> older age etc). As well as girls who have higher status than me and I still lead. The point is also there is this language bias again. This is only a signifier being signified. There are so many variables at play it's just not so clear cut and rational. Me being the provider and playing the provider role etc. Is what this girl particularily liked so your intuition is correct. I personally do not like it that much and it's more of an alpha frame of taking care and I mean more alpha brain wave states than what ordinary culture conflates with being alpha. I am not very good in that frame either I might be very good in alpha brainwave states. I prefer independence and interdependence a lot. These roles are also completely jumbled through the entire empowerment movement. I am also turned off by women who want a provider. I most likely frame best in the succesful/adventerous/artist frame although this is one frame that can work successfully from reading David DeAngelos work. It's just not natural to me. As well as the artist frame can be toxic. I definitely need to move there are just not many people here to date/pick up etc. I'd most likely take better care than most guys would of their relationships as i am highly invested in growth. I just could not handle a lazy partner in a sense that is not interested in growth. Yes, provider frame can work. I am just not interested in doing that and I'd rather project a successful guy as this would feel more authentic to my personality.

So I went out yesterday and applied the principles from the video from Leo as far as I can and I basically made out with a very attractive women in the club for 2h or so. We got pretty intimate making out and french kissing, we grinded also most of the time while dancing front to front back to front pretty hard she also went down my crotch and I hers with my hand. I asked if I could touch her bobbies and she agreed etc. I fondeled with them for some time and it was quite fun. I was quite drunk and received last minute resistence in front of her house and she asked me to exchange numbers. I basically continued to ask if I can come with you and just went till it really was a no in a sense. She also had a friend who was drunk which made things a bit difficult. @Leo Gura What do I do from here on out? Ask to meet again to get out for a drink etc? Tbh, I still have no idea what I am doing I just acted based on what I knew and observed. I just want to make sure I am not overinvesting again, do I just shot a message today ask if her friend is doing fine and see if she is fine. She also talked about a party next week.

Yeah it's just not fun dating orange and/or greens only. I appreciate the advice, yet this does not help at all as this is what I am doing already.

Just to set this clear I received 0 response. So the heavy escalation and Leo basically saying I am paraphrasing that she will not meet up. Was true in this case.

@Ulax @mememe This might set the nice guy frame. Winks in general are very bad. Also this gives her control. Which can be an issue from what I consumed till now. As you are not leading. You consistently have to say and do let's do this and let's do that. For instance a female friend of mine told me she likes it when I do this. As well as dislikes it that her boyfriend is not leading. I do this with guy friends too because they can't come to a decision often and they just like it when I lead because I take literally everyone every single fking time into consideration till I forget myself. So overall good intentions I don't think this is solid advice. It's well meant. I basically respected her boundries by not forcing to go with her and obnoxiously nagging and crying etc and needily asking for example. To go with her as would already requires consent from both parties. She basically initiated a kiss at the end and just has more options because she was good looking this was more an opportunity for a fling. She told me she is going to a party next week and I asked her what she is up to because I wanted to setup a date right of the bat. This was her answer. I do hope this is good content for others to reflect or it might not be. The heavy escalation part ruined it and I ruined the intimacy part at the end. If I had space for both of them I could have just bunkered them at my place. That would have worked pretty sure in hindsight. Way to conscious advice you missed the entire context. I was drunk she was drunk there was nothing very conscious about the experience at all. I appreciate your compassion and empathy! ---- Fun is the last issue all dates I had so far basically said it was exciting and fun, yet the connection part is missing. All of them unequivocally. I can get into way to elaborate "bullshit theory" to explain, yet they all had fun. Physical escalation during the day is my main issue as well as this region. Also, yes! Without quoting. I did not experience Berlin fully I was just out with a friend once and did some sightseeing and meet with another friend during the day for sight seeing. I did not experience the night life at all, it's just compare it 3mill ppl. approxx to 20mil ppl. approx. in Beijing and Shanghai. So, Berlin seemed rather small to me. I lived in Beijing and visited Shanghai. My friend basically had the option to call some dude for psychedelics they would come by in a car and bring it to you basically a drug delivery service. I have no idea what goes up in the "underground"/night life in Berlin, yet apparently this was an option. We just went for a beer and kebab.

@Kshantivadin Nah, definitely agree. I'd watch a good fight even with violence at best something artsy with tension. Healthy red is good and also feels very good. I certainly do hold back red qualities the vulnerbility part is quite strong. Ppl. are not used to it also with the amount of decedancy present in society.

@Kshantivadin You are missing the entire point of several of my posts. I agree with you here that they are masculine and healthy especially martial arts. Yet, it's undeniable that many of them really also just like to fight and violence is not very conscious. Overall martial arts and sports is a stage red activity. You can read that in the offical Spiral Dynamics book. Healthy red is positive, yet people shame each other for this. Especially if tier 2 is not activated. I would do martial arts if I'd would not be for my injury because I find it deeply inspiring or some more hardcore athletic training. Especially full-body. You can make a hierachy out of it and stage each martial art if you want. I bet there are forms that are more non-violent and conscious because these two things don't correlate, especially considering even morals and history etc. You can have multipe points of view, if it is a how to question we are basically in stage orange/blue territory often. Expert mode also. ---- Overall the activity itself is mostly placed at red, that does not mean the person doing the activity is red. He/She could be on a way higher plane of existence. Especially with daoism and etc, I am not knowledgable in this stuff also there are not many people so deeply entrenched in martial arts that they are able to experience the art at a level like bruce lee. You can also see the art itself as a line of development if you want to be open to that idea/possibillity. There certainly is even kinesthetic intelligence at higher tiers. ---- Which would just include the body and not even the dynamic of masculine and feminine. It's like saying Peter Ralston is a stage red and not higher. Check out the book the zen body being. If you really like this stuff lmao.

I had to laugh so hard reading this.

Just working in a bigger city could help with day game as I am still a total newb to this basically been out two times with knowing what game is.

@mememe Creativity would not be the issue as well as planning for fun and doing fun things. I lived in two other cities that are bigger by population size/figure. I just think Berlin parties are freaking crazy as well as I just like electronic music. So plenty of options. As well as having access to psychedelics faster. I have a couple of friends there and been there last year, it would be to good for me dude. If I was fit I'd be to flexible for this city. This felt like my hometwon and it bored me lmao felt like I explored everything in 3 days. Besides cycling I could handle some cycling training that shit looks scary.

@Carl-Richard Before I get to theoretical, is it not just similar to experiences of archetypes giving messages etc. Just at a subtle lvl domain of experience. I can speak from an integral standpoint. I had my first dream about hell that was weird. I never have nightmares.

I make it sound more melodramatic then it actually was. But the undertone was rather open and sweet let's say it like that.

@Leo Gura That is good advice/feedback thanks again. I can come up with smth. original just finding a girl that was not entrenched in stereotypes like her was so nice. It was also late. Close to 7am. Imagine going to a Berlin party... has more game members then Vegas and is cheaper. (Should) ---- @FlyingLotus It was a weird situation imagine. I still lead afterwards as she said no and indicators of interest where all still there. Dialted pupils, holding hands, touching her hips, followed my lead, kissing was apparently even an option. She also said it with a nice and sweet undertone like she almost can't, yet has to. It sounded to surreal. That is why I persisted and still lead I also wanted to bring them home, because this city can be quite obnoxious. Imagine the dude that was making out with her friend came back from the club. After seperating from us somehow. With a rowdy bunch of people in a silver mercedes. 3-4 guys polyandry 2.0. Snipping at me subtle cues I already wanted to befriend that guy in the club, but he was just not the brightest. Imagine I had close to a perfect setup and this guy is to stupid to follow me thanks to his pride. My lord. I am going to start dating Eve soon. I tapped his shoulder I would have all bought us a drink for fun etc. Hottest guys in the club are with me surrounded by attractive women. I was super social talking to different people and women and men alike but sometimes...

@Leo Gura What is a good/effective way to close? I basically was persistant and non-needy till in front of her door she said no, when I asked can I come with you. Yet was not really resistant in my opinion I just did not want to force it, because at that point it would have felt needy. Yet, it's not easy to evaluate and the other girl was not fully receptive and was just not as attractive as well as was not attracted to me from my point of view. Before she asked me if I'd join for kebab. At the kebab she basically said no the whole time I still persisted and she still followed in a sense as I was leading. There was some other stuff happening around and I had to make sure people are not being retarded and kill the other girl. This city/region is quite rowdy. She was still receptive to touches I basically just applied some gentleman principles moved her out of retards who'd just straight up crash into her Holding hands We kissed at the end I was suprised that she was still open to that So IOI was still on ---- Anyway did not receive a message till now. What do do from here on out. Last thing I can do is send out insta. As she asked for it. Texting already for more leads.

@Leo Gura ?? @something_else I presume because of this. https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/what-turns-women-on-science I don't quite understand how the mystery then is lost, I could understand it from a males pespective, yet not quite female. I do think from reading and she asked for my insta I already sort of showed her a big part of my world by making out and heavily escalating she can intuit how much experience etc. I have or potential. When she looses interest in that and just sees other guys in the club or even when going home. There is a lot new mystery and you basically have been already explored partially and discovered, as well as, emotional connection could have stopped somehow and just having most likely that initial spark of being seen as valued and sexy and then exploring that again that is fun. The other women that was part of her crew made out with a couple of guys and basically steadily received that validation. When I review that night and basically she will never loose interest in novelty, discovery and mystery from a sheer perspectival viewpoint. ----- She'll most likely will become defensive when the emotional connection is lost and depending on her standards etc. She from an individual perspective definitely can loose the opportunity of being seen as valued and sexy when she is seen as easy access and everybody made out with her. She basically closes herself of to exploring that mystery and building emotional connection because most high value guys then want nothing to do with her and the lower value guys will just not be able to produce the same kind of experience. Depending on her standards and she might even like it that way. This is sort of my reflection closing and finding that opportune moment was not easy I basically had to force it a bit by staying proactive, yet still the whole process was messed up of mystery. It could have also been that her friend was the issue I did not take care of her properly as a friend of mine did it, yet he had no interest in her and I did not know that. Unsure just going through options and ideas. Sparking that imagination again of showing her your world and building emotional intimacy that thing has to close most likely at one point.

@Thought Art https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSE-gidTbh8

@Thought Art Thanks mate! @Leo Gura Thanks for the feedback! I was unsure how to close and kept asking if I can come with her. I intuited that I'd had to close I don't know will see. The last minute resistance really kicked in. It's odd how this still felt like building rapport. Thanks definitely will keep this in mind. Are heavy escalation and make outs generally sparsely deployed even during night game? I do think during the day it definitely would be strange.

@itachi uchiha That is the main reason I bought the book from robert greene because I was tired of friends playing manipulation and status games even though I did not fully read it. I do think consciouness auto corrects a lot of this stuff and automaticall helps you to find more conscioues people. You once had a post on how to grow in stages (spiral dynamics, susan cook greuter) I answered then the data became corrupted in the forum. You can basically and this is new "info" grow stage with only 20-40 minutes of meditation and you are in college/uni. IIRC it was 1h before 2 stages in 4 years or 1 stage in 2 years. Development usually arrest around age 26-29 max IIRC. If the enviroment is not conducive. For growth. Then every 5 years one stage including. I don't know about tier 3. But this is basically what I wanted to post for your thread. I don't know living in a hostile enviroment I can certainly see how protecetive some of this stuff is especially when I consider just toxic red friends. The sort of fundamental hack is a zazen practice because it disambiguates power dynamics although this is info from Wilber courses I have notes, I am unsure how applicable that is in a non first world country. As it definitely works here. I'd do intuit if I'd had the competence I could lead way better then most people currently do with their level of consciouness. Yet, with stage red people it's an issue. Although I really have to say I am quite good at disambiguation power dynamics it's just that when I want power myself people really drag me down. It's odd. You'd enter a We based experience from Tier 1 and Tier 2 and in Tier 3 you'd bascially have a full power transcendes if my understanding is correct. I liked one thing from Sadghuru and this sort of the trick many people play with me memory is hierachy. It's odd playing with that anyway. This will be just rambeling I bet you know more then I what is better to do in an enviroment like this. Might be good food for thought or not.

@itachi uchiha The dude who leads this basically does/did jiu-jitsu etc. So be wary if you never been there there are definitely conscious aspects to masculinity deraling every group without exploring it is quite myopic. There is no real need in my opinion to be that way. I think it's a fantasy for young men to be that way. There are non-violent ways to develop masculinity I saw this with my old friends who like this stuff and they basically just feel the red stage of development and their vulnerabillity drive of being unable to defend themselves because they are small and exposed to forces they have no control over. I am in the same boat, yet I contemplated this way longer then them. Obviously, this will not defend you from physical harm. Also this is stuff from Ken Wilber integral coaching conflating it with EVERYTHING else that is out there is just not the case. I've been to the coaching stuff basically two times and it's a lot about purpose as a man constantly it's about purpose very often. I've been basically forced to be with these kind of men when I was younger who see themselves as super masculine like gym owners and DIY attitude people and saw the limitating perspective. I feel and intuit this stuff runs way deeper and is about more. Some get it some don't. The obsession with fighting when I saw the black belt I trained with in Judo for the couple of months I've been there as well as seeing Dr.Keith Witt who did a lot of martials arts from integral. They will all tell you it's about smth. way deeper, yet they just like bashing heads and fighting. You can also see it (BOTH conscious and unconscious aspects). Especially when you meditate before you start the martial art etc. Same with holligans who learn martal arts to crush their heads and fight their enemies there is not much consciouness there. I do think working out that karma in a sense is good, yet hurting other people is just no a conscious way to deal with things and breeds this macho attitude that is just not good. I do think just zazen gives you a good taste, it's a non bullshit approach to feeling very masculine naturally. Developing and becoming a warrior is great, I do think wisdom is more powerful in a sense. Ultimately I do not know. We are still living in the 21. century. Things are moving forwards not backwards. This is what I think when I see people getting stuck in martial arts and fighting etc. Being stuck in deep red vulnerabilltiy part or creation part. I bought courses from Integral and went through them meditated on each stage of development besides turqouise. Just based on my experience and other more conscious people warning me. I do think red pill stuff is an issue when not consciously applied. It's similar to a boxer going out and punching people for fun because he has the power to do it. Instead of knowing his power and practicing humility in that sense because he is powerful etc. I don't think there is anything wrong with defending yourself and learning it it is certainly beautiful. Creativity can also be a good outlet. As well as exploring the drive itself. These are mainly my observations about masculinity as long as it's not opressive but expressive I do think it's quite healthy. Definitely took me a while to figure things out on my own. I still do not know enough about it, yet generally I do feel a good taste of it.

@itachi uchiha I'll check it out in time. I took part in a mens circle via integral some practices just give you direct nature of masculinity like zazen or just working out and lifting weights.