puporing

That's just how the devils operate, black is white, and white is black.

Hopefully going through a rude awakening like everyone else might be.

"you deal with the devil you do and the devil you don't and the devil you don't want to"

I follow Kyle Kulinski pretty closely https://www.youtube.com/@SecularTalk Recently this guy https://www.youtube.com/@MeidasTouch Canadian news is pretty solid imo https://www.youtube.com/@CBCNews BBC News https://www.youtube.com/@BBCNews And then I just try to follow the key leaders/decision-makers themselves and what they are up to such as Trudeau & Zelensky (those are what I consider key leaders now because of what is happening with Trump/Musk). I still dabble in the American news channels like MSNBC. Financial Times was good when I had it, but it's pretty expensive to subscribe to. These kind of gatherings can tell you a lot about what is happening too:

No no this isn't about not being flexible, this is a matter of one having more clarity than another and not budging. I could just as easily say your mind is the one not flexible enough,. See the problem? It's like you are arguing with someone who scored 99% on a calculus exam and you scored 80% and trying to tell them your answers are more correct. But if you truly believe that the test scores are inaccurate, then yeah, that's the end of dialogue. I can't even blame you.

Laws are not so straightforward, what is considered "criminal" is dependent on the consciousness of the people at the time. People have to actually decide things like "degrees of seriousness", and this changes with the collective's consciousness. Because to me a CEO causing death through cost cutting when they didn't have to is just as bad as a murderer, but the general public/lawmakers may not agree with this yet. So at this time such CEOs/decisionmakers, don't face nearly as bad of consequences.

Well it's a belief that there's not enough to go around, at this time in history, especially if AI/robotics can be rapidly scaled up. But hey, I can't change your mind overnight.. can I?

Well I think in this case neither side is being very "thoughtful" (to enough of a degree) and just throwing the puck back and forth. (Truth be told, one cannot be truly thoughtful about these things until one awakens beyond the limited self to enough of a degree.)

Yeah but they are also blind to the obvious contradiction that they are against "murderers" for example, meanwhile CEOs can deal some hefty damage by cost cutting and focusing on their own profit maximization, and essentially committing crimes. I'm not just saying these things, this has been demonstrated over and over in history. And I didn't say people need no money to live, this is such a strawman. We are not arguing about having $0 pay vs millions. That's kind of what you are suggesting.

Well I can't say I can read the minds of every such person, that is not my claim. My claim is based on the rhetoric I hear from such people or those aligned in similar beliefs. You should go back and read Leo's own comments. He fundamentally thinks CEOs deserves millions and billions of their pay. That does not compute with me about "survival", as my notion of survival is not even close to what these people believe to be "enough for survival". It's not even close, not even remotely close. So it is a belief, what one believes one "needs" to "survive", that is a belief yes.

I would say he does, it's not just some accident or fluke that these people constantly are defending their salaries and lobbies against naysayers.

It has to do with the will of the people. If the masses generally perceive that it is in their collective interest to have publicly funded systems in areas such as healthcare, roads, education, security, then the masses shall implement such. If it is not in the masses interest, then they will not have such. How the masses come to such decisions however, is generally learning through sheer suffering (the consequences of not having them). You can have a masses of baboons voting for barbarism too.

The people who believe they deserve such kind of compensation.

That's not my position, read my post again.. I am critiquing that position.

Yeah but his take on CEOs and corporations is very mainstream kind of take to me.. so.. Idk. I just mean that this is the same kind of rhetoric you hear almost everywhere. That we just have to accept that CEOs/COOs are worth something like 500x more than other people for instance. I don't think this is a reconcilable thing if your mind fundamentally just belive this is true.

@yetineti I'm just saying if you are trying to teach something, it's just going to go over someone's head, because currently our system does rely on commerce. I'm not saying that's the only "survival option" but I'm saying you will not get anywhere with the masses (at this time) by trying to tell them something that is just too beyond what they can intellectually grasp. All I'm saying is that, I am aware of the consciousness of the masses and I do not teach something that is too far beyond the average/above average person. Though I understand if that is what you feel like your role is at this time. For example it is easier for the average person to grasp the move towards less profit motive types of businesses. Than to tell them to try to abolish profit driving altogehter. Telling someone who is clearly not ready for more is going to backfire and cause them to learn nothing and just ignore you.

It's not my position that all forms of punishment should be abolished. In Canada first degree murder carries maximum 25 year sentencing. To me that is a substantial loss of life/mobility.

It's not necessarily about listing stuff out here. And well I think you have a good list to start off. I'm not trying to be secretive, but if people are not ready then they are not ready. I fundamentally do not value something like money beyond what it can do as a tool while I am embodied.

I don't think that's true. Clearly Luigi is what you might consider an extreme leftist that decided to take the matter of "dealing justice" to himself. If you had a dialogue with him he would prob tell you that that CEO was the cause of massive deaths because of denial of health care. You don't have to literally be a murderer to be the cause of deaths. For example you can have a CEO/management that constantly cost cut safety measures causing deaths.

This is not a good argument, you are just feeding the other side by also being ignorant about the subject. These are much better points. As well you could talk about non-profits which still have to work like a competitive business, or for-profits that are not so profit driven for the shareholders/board of directors. The people leading those companies clearly exist in our world and do just fine without getting paid massive amounts of money to do the job. Also note I am not saying a non-profit is automatically less corrupt, it has to actually be less corrupt. There are plenty of ones that are also not true to their statments.

Yes but good luck trying to convince anyone else of that. Only you know what that value is that cannot (and prob shouldn't be) monetized like it is socks off a shelf.

It's not really just about Ukraine anymore. The dictators are joining forces.

And also not everyone wants to have employees, there are lots of small business people and freelancers who just work for themselves. It's not a "requirement" that to survive in this world you have to either be a CEO or an employee, there are some other options.

Nah, it's not so "rosy", that might be a propaganda line. I think he was fundamentally very threatened because Ukraine was ideologically very different from him. Similar thing with the US/Canada dynamic. Donald Trump feels very threatened by Canadian leaders since they challenge his credibility. And so the more someone feels threatened ideologically, the more they will try to use force to quash it. Putin basically wanted the democratic regime to be gone. It's not really about the people or even territory in my opinion, those are secondary/symbolic. It's fundamentally to quash the democratic movement, which either means that people either submit to his demands, or face invasion.