OBEler

@The Crocodile I don't see that so far on pure psychedelics , weed/MDMA/Ketamin are definitively toxic. But 5 Meo, LSD, shrooms? Never had any issues so far and I use these since 3 years regularly.Would love to hear from some more experienced about that.

The movie Groundhog day comes to my mind.

@Nemra wow sounds interesting, thanks for your research.

@theleelajoker I think you must consider the context Leo said this. I think he just meant that people here are so confident about their spiritual development that they throw out bold statements about deep topics . However if they not even can answer what's meant with sanity vs insanity they should be more humbled.

Ok. I know psychedelics can indirectly harm you if you get out of an exhausting trip and THEN an external stressor hit you on top like relationships problems or a disease and your capability of handling this situation mentally is weakened because of tripping. You then can get a mayor psychological breakdown, which can lead to typical stress symptoms like burnout, Tinnitus, psychosis etc.

Insanity is when your mind has no base to ground itself anymore, like core beliefs. Its therefore not limited anymore and this is insanity because you don't know the difference between up or down, good or bad, who is who, etc and are free to imagine total new disturbing things. Sanity is opposite of course, when you have some solid foundation in core beliefs and a functional structure of your ego mind so it cannot be lost in its own mind so easy because of these limits which keep you in check.

@Leo Gura what exactly are these damages from psychedelics? Probably heart related? I feel your heart has a lot of work to do sometimes.

I never take that as evidence. You must become highly conscious to get the evidence for yourself. No one but you yourself can proof it. All I was doing was just contradicting your tribe example. Again nothing more nothing less.

@Someone here she said to me she already knew it somehow. 5 Meo was just a remembering that she constructs reality with her mind. She is spiritual gifted. It's not a not knowing. She knows in real time, she is conscious of how she construct everything. Solipsism can be reached without 5 meo. It's not a drug induced state. Don't drift off what my enlightenment journey entails and how I should approach it. That's not the topic here. And no I don't chase any psychedelic experiences nor do I pursue enlightenment.

@Someone here hey, I gave you a good contradiction to your tribal people example. Nothing more nothing less. And now all you do is start to discuss solipsim with me. What's that?

Even if you can do astral projections/OBEs, they don't come close to psychedelics. I tried exactly this experiment with my girlfriend. I never told her about Leo.I never gave her spiritual books, she cannot read english so it's impossible that she ever went to this forum. I never told her about anything spiritual, like god , solipsim. I gave her psychedelics to cure her depression. But she gradually awakened. First she met Jesus several times , also other gods. Then she met zeus the god of all gods. Her first glimps, she told me somehow she was him. Then 30 trips later she had a first 5 Meo breakthrough. After that she told me exactly what Leo told you all the way. You are everything. There is only you. You are completely alone. But you split yourself like infinite mirrors. But there can't be someone else but you. You create everything around you with your mind. That were exactly her words. It's true solipsim. And she is fine with that.

@Davino yes particularly the solipsim. The biggest checkpoint I think.

@Davino can you elaborate? How it played out for you, the checkpoint of no return. I know it will be different for everyone.

@Davino my ego mind see this as the highest price ever. Really I would probably go insane or just want to lie in bed and sleep and wish to forget. However my girlfriend doesn't care about. She is fully conscious that she creates everything with her mind including me and I don't exist etc. she said it's just normal. For you how high was this price?

@Leo Gura yeah I wish the price could be told more concrete to people who are in the middle of their journey. Like telling students if it's worth doing the whole master degree of college and what's the price for it or just doing a bachelor degree is enough or ending studying completely and focus on something else, finish later. I am afraid of points of no return ( mayor shifts in consciousness, seeing through things/illusions like solipsim which stay probably forever, energetic stress related damage like tinnitus). That's a high price for me.

We discussed this on other threads. he stopped tripping because his health status doesn't allow it right now.

I had such phases where I regretted deeply to even start with spirituality because my life was too different and I was in a kind of altered state of consciousness for month until I found balance. I got way more stronger out of this spiritual crisis. Do you think god realization is for most people way better than the price they pay for it? I remember your interview with Martin ball where you both thought many should experience a 5 Meo breakthrough and becoming god.

@Ishanga if you don't follow basic rules about discussion I will give you further warning points. Don't play the victim card here and grow up. I told you in a friendly way that you should overthink your writing style. You cannot behave and write here like a child.

@theleelajoker introducing is a difficult word because you always get introduced by someone/something. I mean with introduced more like passively told to do something. Mostly a man doesn't get introduced by someone. For example He watches a YouTube video about cod, then researches about this game by himself, he buys the PlayStation and this game by himself, he plays by himself. He made it by himself to play this game out of curiosity. Most women don't do this, they need someone who did all these steps before and then they just trust them blindly. Same with psychedelics.

@Ishanga please read carefully. I never wrote that you are against psychedelics. I wrote that you attack psychedelic users for their experiences they make, dismiss them, call them narcissists - which you can do. But expect that not everyone shares your opinion and handle some criticism. I gave you warning points for your writing style. I warned you before. It's hard to read, please correct your grammar and follow basic syntactic rules before you post something.

@theleelajoker it's my observation, which is limited so far and could be biased. I don't wanted to say men must save women or must show them psychedelics. I wanted to say it's more up to men if women take psychedelics or not because they alone don't come to the idea to research psychedelics and take them in the end by themselves. Are you a woman? If you were introduced from women, maybe these women were introduced by men? Again. I feel that psychedelics are somehow in men's hand. Like grill tongs in men's hand or a PlayStation controller. You know that I mean?

@Ishanga what I know about you is that you never tried any psychedelics by yourself but you talk like you are an expert in this field and constantly attack psychedelic users as some narcists. If you make such big claims expect some criticism.If you cannot handle that then maybe think about your writing style. By the way your writing style is confusing and hard to read. Please use correct grammar and punctuation here at least.

@Ishanga @IshangaI mirror your dictator style, how do you think about if someone tells you how to live life without being asked? Please keep in mind, that we are not here in spirituality section so again keep this for another thread.

It sounds ridiculous to hear this from someone who never touched any psychedelic to give such an confident advice. You never had any God experience at all. You never had any psychedelic experiences at all. But here you are throwing out unproven claims, Guaranteed!!!

@Ishanga you are misunderstanding the thread. It's about to learn from his behavior and not fall in trap by yourself. You don't need all the information for this. This is no gossip but serious analysis. "Just live your life, realize what life is and live it to its fullest potential"... Don't tell anyone here how to live life. Keep your wise quotes for another thread.