OBEler

Oh how wrong you are. I met countless yogis who had solid awakenings through isha yoga.

@Leo Gura OK got it. I didn't know how important thinking could be. It's the ego mind which builds a worldview. So all your understanding is still an interpretation. But based on true experiences. That leaves a rest possibility that you are fundamentally wrong and reality could be something completely other. I really thought material worldview cannot survive after some 5 meo breakthroughs.

@Leo Gura Martin Ball had proper God realization. He says you are God. He got that point deeply. You are reality experiencing yourself he said. And still a materialistic worldview? How is that possible.

But why do you need contemplation. I thought 5 meo breakthroughs show you in your face. You can't unsee. It's 100% direct. What's contemplating needed if the truth is shown to you 1000 times.

Its strange because he tripped on 5 meo hardcore for decades. Also he is pretty an expert in psychedelics. He is not religious and open minded. He is smart, an almost non dogmatic mind. He has everything he has to recognize what Leo and many other 5 meo users recognize. And he didn't. Leo once said, get 100 breakthroughs on 5 meo and you will pretty surely awaken. Martin Ball tripped probably 1000 times and didn't.

@Carl-Richard leo says fundamentally this reality is a dream but its different from your night dream, but fundamentally its mind stuff. Martin ball says something different. He even contradicts himself, because he also says you are god experiencing yourself, you create your own reality etc. But he also says physical reality is not dream because it exists outside your projections. Leo says, there is only your projection right now and thats the whole universe. Wo is right? Martin ball did more 5 meo than leo. But leo makes way more sense. Although there could be really layers of imaginations so behind my projection of a tree there could be an imagined tree projected from God, resting in infinity.

46:00 he defines physical reality. Its something behind your projections. @Leo Gura you say there is nothing behind your direct projection. But not even a projection behind a projection? So layers of projections? Like for example martin balls view, there is a projected Tree out there and I see it with my ego projection?

By the way, you all misunderstand martin ball. He just got hung up on the word consciousness and spirituality, which he still interprets not as the searching for truth but as the buddhist way with the whole lifestyle package of meditation, karma, chacras, worshipping, moral and reincarnation and so on. He just misinterpreted their question. Jump on 28:20: There he clearly says the same like leo: reality is a living conscious entity which is interacting with itself and thats the true nature of reality. update: on 42:50 he shows his materialistic world view.

My own thoughts with the help of AI: I don't doubt that you experienced becoming everything, or that the distinction between self and reality completely dissolved. But how do you distinguish an experience in which all boundaries disappear from an experience that establishes that no boundaries exist independently of consciousness? An experience of absolute unity is still not automatically proof of an ontology of absolute unity. The crucial question isn't whether the experience felt infinitely real, but how you established that it revealed the ultimate nature of reality rather than a radically transformed mode of experiencing reality. What makes that interpretation necessarily true?

isnt this an overreactin on the nvidia stock?

ChatGPT goes deep now: But this seems to undermine your previous argument. You explicitly stated that the non-physical is "more Real" than the physical, and that the physical is a hallucination. Now you're claiming that there can be no ultimate distinction between the real and the unreal. If that distinction ultimately collapses, what exactly does "more Real" mean? What ontological criterion allows you to privilege the non-physical over the physical? If Reality cannot be grounded in anything, then you also cannot establish the non-physical as its privileged ground without explaining what you mean by grounding. And if all distinctions ultimately dissolve into Infinity, then the distinction between hallucination and genuine reality must dissolve as well. You seem to be switching between two positions: At the absolute level, no distinctions are ultimately valid. At the ontological level, some distinctions are absolutely decisive, particularly the superiority of the non-physical over the physical. These positions can potentially be reconciled through a distinction between relative and absolute truth. But then you need to specify which level you're speaking at and explain why your ontological hierarchy is justified at that level. If the distinction between real and unreal ultimately collapses, how can you consistently claim that the physical is less real than the non-physical? Without that clarification, your argument appears to use distinctions when they support your conclusion and dismiss them when they challenge it.

Chatgpt gets furious: If unity does not exclude differentiation, then you've conceded my central point. Why couldn't the physical and non-physical be two differentiated aspects of one underlying reality? You originally claimed that distinguishing them is ontologically incoherent. But if differentiation is compatible with unity, you need an additional argument explaining why this particular distinction is impossible. Simply saying that I don't understand God doesn't resolve that logical problem. What exactly makes the physical/non-physical distinction fundamentally different from every other differentiation you allow within Oneness?

With the help of chatgpt : You're making a logical leap from ontological unity to the impossibility of ontological distinctions. Why must ultimate unity exclude differentiation? A single fundamental reality could possess multiple irreducible properties without those properties existing independently of that reality. You're confusing numerical unity with absolute homogeneity. More importantly, even if all distinctions were ultimately conceptual, that would not establish that reality is consciousness. The fact that everything we know appears within consciousness is an epistemological claim, not proof that everything which exists is constituted by consciousness. Your argument seems circular: you define God as a reality in which no fundamental distinctions can exist, and then conclude that any ontology allowing such distinctions must be false because it contradicts God. But that only demonstrates incompatibility with your definition. It doesn't establish that your definition corresponds to reality. What is your non-circular argument that ultimate reality must be consciousness and that any physical reality independent of an individual observer is logically impossible?

Have you ever watched a video of Sadghuru, he always says publicy life is a dream.

an obe feels pretty real, still a dream.

Yes he did. You will not find these teachings on youtube but in his advanced courses. especially solipsism. people were freaking out.

Again, if you experience things in a weird dream at night, for your own sanity, better take it as pure fantasy. Yes overall you have no way of knowing, you can say that to everything. But again, your common sense should give you a bit of solid understanding otherwise you get into scizophrenic areas.

@Wilhelm44 I just want to say, dont take your weird dreams at night so seriously. I just want to give some common sense here. You people who dont recognize a classical OBE, who are too open minded and not thinking clearly, you just feed into his psychosis of an alien abduction. This is not ok.

Could it be that santa clause is giving you a conscious experience of his world via the out of body experience? Yes.

obe s are a weird dream.

please participate in his hatha yoga courses again with some more seriousness. Do these exercises without the constant need to understanding them, your mind is in your way. See what happens.

your dreams at night are not takig place in this physical reality. if I dream i win in the lottery and wake up, I dont have the money. same with dreaming up aliens doing an operation on me. its just a dream. Common sense, right?

I just have common sense, so tell me why should these alien visits at night be real and not an out of body experience.

Then why can't you see that he just had an obe? I saw on obe all kinds of stupid things my mind dreamed up. Do you really believe aliens waited until he sleeps, then they materialize before his bed and do a complicated operation on his body without leaving any traces?

My interpretation is trying to help here to clear things up. You don't know because you never had an out of body experience. You are the one who is closed minded to that phenomenon.