Nahm

@Jack River Would you say enlightenment is the same as the realization that there is no separate self?

@Strikr meh.

@Jack River What if that’s a smoke screen, so to speak? What if enlightenment is not a “notion”, or an “idea” at all? What if everything else is an idea? What if it’s not a “destination” at all? What if it’s a way in, and not a “way out”? What if enlightenment is so far beyond “psychological safety”, that thought deludes us by categorizing seeking there, so that we don’t seek, - thus falsely experiencing the very “psychological safety” via nullification? What if that it is any of those things is the smokescreen? Could thinking be so sneaky, as to convince us not to even begin? But then, if we didn’t find out for ourselves, in our own direct experience - wouldn’t we just be believing someone else, or be believing our own thoughts? What if “seeking what we have learned about enlightenment”, is not what seeking actually is? What if the suffering is actually from missing what is in actuality, a smokescreen, and the absence of suffering is in actuality the result of denying one’s own desire? Could a delusion of this magnitude itself be a way of not living life to the fullest, but veiled by a false wisdom of not taking the first step? How could someone know these things with absolute certainty without seeking, given that they currently, honestly, don’t know?

I think this is what’s at the core of the ‘issue’. It is subtle, but like splitting a nucleus in comparison to an atom, more power is found in the more subtle. What is the difference between: How do I know if I’m good enough to start offering my Digital Paiting and Drawing services? and How do I know if my Digital Painting and Drawing services are good enough to offer?

@Jack River I do. When you reference “attainment of enlightenment”, what are you talking about?

@Shakazulu Right! So that ain’t it. It’s UNIMAGINABLE. Try to imagine it again?

@brugluiz Stop equating the quality of your work, with yourself. You are good enough, times infinity. Awareness of conditioned thinking which leads you to equate your work, the output, to who or what you are, “if you’re good enough”, is paradoxically reducing the quality of your work. (This is attachment to a thing - your work - )

@tashawoodfall You’ll never be able to enjoy it. So that motive won’t work. That’s why there is nothing to give.

@Emerald You can do this tomorrow morning. Get a good night’s sleep, wake up and meditate, returning your focus to stomach breathing, over and over. You know that is the work to be done. Wether you entertain 1 more thought, or 1 million more thoughts, before doing this work, that’s up to you. When I was there I had a family & I was the only income producer (wife at home with 2 babies). I had to be at work at 9am. So I got up at 4am, for many months, instead of 7am. Eventually you will not have thoughts. Consider how in holding a problem, inherent;y, the solution will seem foreign. Thought will discredit everything to perpetuate more thinking. Effort & desire, and human will are much stronger than thought, especially when you consider what you’re up against is one thought, not all of them, just the one. If you can’t pinpoint why it is you don’t care for me, this could be it.

@SuchIsLife Notice a thought in the direction of what you want, and notice a self defeating thought, which pulls you towards unwanted. Apply aware you’re doing this. Awareness alone is curative. Consider, “why would I think about myself, and my forthcoming life, in a way that doesn’t feel good - to me?” It is a ridiculous thing to do, no?

@MM1988 When you’ve had enough of your self imposed suffering, you’ll start to make changes. The littlest change, changes the entire trajectory. But no one can suffer enough for you. By self imposed, I mean; sleep, diet, exercise, meditation, yoga, how you think & talk to yourself & others. Soon, it will just click, that you are choosing to do the things which make you suffer. Then you’ll start making different choices.

How did you do that? What did you find, ultimately?

@Shakazulu Could you imagine something which looks like things on earth?

@non_nothing @Jack RiverWhat would you say enlightenment is? (This thing you advise against seeking).

“Ox” represents something which is unimaginable. You could read a thousand books about it, but when you see it, It’s as if you never heard about it once.

@Genghis Khan Really happy for you. Sounds like you lost things most would be happy to lose. What do you mean by the responsibility, what about that is giving you trouble?

What do you really want? What’s the ‘right direction’ look like to you?

@Gligorije Honest & whole / complete clarity in distinction between belief / thought & the actuality of your own, ordinary, experience. That’s it. Aka enlightenment, or at the least, a very close precursor.

@Serotoninluv That’s the sweetest thing I’ve heard in a while man. ????❤️ God bless the teachers, seriously.

@Arthur Me too. I see there are some masters, of masters, of marketing. We’ll see though. Maybe.

@Mikael89 Yes. You?

@Mikael89 That reality is subjective, and you aren’t aware of that, is exactly what would prevent that. ❤️

@Anton Rogachevski Ok, I hear you. After around 20 years of meditation, one misc day, sat down to meditate and boom, no self happened in an instant - I was a blubbering blissful fool for a week, and was never that previous ‘guy’ again. My eyes were opened, I was all ears - spirituality was real. Reality, life, was so much different, so clear, so connected - I had to know and experience everything there was to this spirituality once that happened. So I researched quantum physics, religions, etc, etc..then I came accross Leo on Youtube. Then this forum. I read about psychedelics. I had no idea man. Hugely eye opening for me. I had tried a little shrooms 20 years prior, basically as a kid, I had no idea there was a connection to spirituality. I had thought of them as just another ‘drug’. But I listened, and I got it though, and started the adventure. About 15 - 20 incrementally wise, diligently prepared trips later - BOOOOOM - first nondual seeing. Saw what I am. The actual Self, The One. Actual Reality. Infinity. No one could have told me what psychedelics really were. No one could have told me what I really am. Never would I have had any understanding of what the word “enlightenment” was actually pointing to. Never. No chance whatsoever. I thought it was ‘something about the buddha’, cause he was wise & giving. Lol. TLDR: Psychedelics. asap. Responsibly. Do not spend 20 years only meditating like I did. Why, is not communicable. You’ll only know “why”, after. You are more than ready. Fear, self doubt, any sense of lack, over thinking, anxiety, depresssion - suffering: gone. I don’t remember them.

Music is poetry & melody.

If there’s an objective alien, then subjectively, to the alien, you are an alien. But then if you’re an alien, then obviously aliens exist. Unless of course, “exist” is entirely subjective. If reality is subjective, are there ‘other’ animals, humans, etc? Wouldn’t an ‘other’, whatever it is, require reality to be objective? If reality is subjective, it’s really not “reality” anymore. It’s you. If it’s entirely subjective, then it is only subjective, to you. This would mean everything seen & heard, is somehow you. But if everything seen & heard is you, then you must not only be a person, as it seems. But if you’re not a person, because reality is subjective, you’d have to be everything seen & heard. But if you’re everything, to experience every thing, you would have to be no thing, which of course means there would have to be no thing. If there’s no thing, then what is seen & heard? @Strikr Could pure magic even be a belief though? Isn’t it the same as “I don’t know”, or “I can’t know”? Like, as a descriptive term, “magic” is like saying, “I have no knowledge which accounts for this experience, I don’t even have beliefs which “explain” it, even if I acknowledge it’s a belief”. I agree with both of you though.