Mohammad

@PepperBlossoms I agree. I think as long as you keep an open mind, its ok to pick sides. You just have to have a constant "checking mechanism" in your mind to be able to change your mind when your direct experience and reason tell you to do so. Picking sides has always been vey hard for me. It's both a blessing and curse at the same time.

Good opinions. Also this might help and give you some good insights:

@SQAAD I think you're right. I think someday Leo will see his many errors. He should listen to all the things he has said in past five years. He has a lot to learn from himself. From watching Leo and how his ego is unfolding, I am becoming aware of the reason behind the behavior of mystics and sages throughout human history. I do not consider Leo wise anymore. His "American Leo" ego has taken control of his spiritual path. He will pass this. One day he will laugh and cry for what he has become these days. "If you name me, you negate me."

If you want to introduce him to spirituality, I don't think that introducing psychedelics would be the best idea. I mean I have lots and lots of friends who do use psychedelics alot, but none of them are necessarily into spirituality or even interested very much in spirituality. Psychedelics act as supplements in spiritual learning and development. So i suggest first introduce him to something like meditation. Explain its scientific benefits for him, try to help him to meditate for a while, try to use his intellectual curiosity. If you saw good feedbacks, then you can introduce him to psychedelics. Because I think if he is not interested in spiritual development, using psychedelics at best would be a fun experience for him. But of course I might be wrong. Either way, it seems that you are a good friend

The "Complete Man" exists only in our imagination. Everybody has flaws. Just learn, from everybody and everything, and continue your own journey. Although Wilber might be more advanced than Manson, but in some areas Manson might teach us something more valuable than Wilber. Don't lose interest in him! Just try to learn both from Manson and Wilber, and also Leo, and bugs bunny!

So I came across this video, it has very good info and insights about how the media gives people what they want, no matter what the truth is, and how they create this illusion of right vs left to gain more profit:

I think I understand your points very clearly, because my own journey has been somehow the same. I found this path about 5 years ago, started meditating, contemplating, studying, using psychedelics, introspecting, etc. But since then it has been a big rollercoaster. Just going on and off, and the thing that has affected my spiritual life the most has been my daily life (family, work, literally everything apart from you!) To be honest, it is still challenging for me, I haven't figured out how to balance my daily life with my spiritual life; but I'd like to think of it as my own journey, and the difficulties that Every person should surpass. If you haven't watched Leo's "Hero's journey" episode, watch it, you might get good insights But I also think that I should figure out how to balance my daily life with my spiritual life, not to choose one of them over the other one. So you don't necessarily have to let go of your life in normal society. Of course some stuff in daily life may affect your spiritual life in a negative way more, somethings less, you have to figure them out by yourself (it could be some people, some jobs, relationships, etc). If you can figure out how to balance these two, you are on your own way towards the truth. Wish you all the best dear.

I believe when people say this, they mean that the wealth distribution is not equal, rich people are getting more rich than poor people. But from a historical point of view, you are absolutely right.

I saw her on Russel Brand's podcast for the first time, listened to some of her talks, and I really believe that she's on to something. Of course you can't judge everything that Gates does based on these facts, but still, very eye opening.

My exact opinion.

It takes wisdom to understand wise words. Leo is way ahead of his time. Happy to see so many people here that kinda understand how human psyche works, and have learned and thought about the stuff that Leo talks about.

I am not saying to believe it or not believe it. In my opinion if we think clearly, and look at the stuff that media outlets say in an objective way, it doesn't make sense. For example if I want to describe a painting in my room for you right now, I can tell you descriptions about the painting that will make you think that I have the most beautiful painting, but I can also give you details that will make you think that the painting is the most ugly picture ever! Everything that I tell you might be true, but still I am affecting your thought process the way I want! Media is master at creating this bias. They will not tell you stuff that could eventually lead to them making less money. I agree.

As someone who lives in iran, a country with mandatory hijab, I get what she is saying. But still, its complete nonsense! Human mind can make up tons of different ideas which make his mind feel good or secure, it doesn't mean that the idea is not bullshit. Same here :))

@Tim R Great topic. One of the practical ways is more interaction. I've noticed this many times, that when people have more interaction with animals, they slowly see the intelligence of nature in those animals, and in a weird way it will make humans more affectionate toward animals. Also as others suggested, meditation or spiritual development in general would be also effective. Increased love will make us more kind and understanding, whether in our behaviors toward animals, other humans, or ourselves. Interesting Idea! Never thought of it in this manner. I myself feel more empathy toward animals than humans very often.

So true. Most people are doing this most of the times that they are arguing about some shit.

@arlin Yes, stuff that decrease your attention can change your brain's anatomy, but practices that can increase your attention can also do that. So its not irreversible, just try to fix it. Totally agree.

Very interesting topic. Thanks for sharing@ivankiss It's kinda funny how most of the comments try to explain enlightenment in their own views. It reminded me of the Leo's "mankind is bullshitting animal" episode :)) Don't say enlightenment is this or that, just do your own inner work and develop your own consciousness, don't try to explain your own egoic mind and ideas to others. Many of the comments in the forum is just that, not very useful or insightful.

I agree completely. Its funny for me to think that 10% of society, even most advanced societies, are yellow. The distribution of spiral stages is so skewed toward the lower stages. As someone who lives in the middle east, I think that the same goes for here. Many people consider themselves as orange, or even green, but they are blue people who have become accustomed to some orange/green ideas. The real percentage of orange/green people is much less than what some orange/green people might think! So maybe if you are someone with mostly orange/green mentality, it seems to you that there are lots of people like you in your middle eastern country(because they hate this or that corrupt politician), but they are not! Yes, orange is growing, but green is still so rare. And yellow, just let it go! so few.

@Eph75 Accurate!

A spiral dynamics stage red leader lashing out. What kind of message does this send to other leaders and people in the world? this is supposed to be America, land of the free!

Good questions. I believe when you have these problems, you should try to fix them first, and then focus your energy on consciousness work. Some of them are more challenging, like chronic pain, but psychological issues can be fixed, and you should first try to overcome them. Leo old episodes address some of these issues pretty well, and I believe he has mentioned several times that you have to first improve and fix more basic issues and then concentrate on your higher purposes.

@BipolarGrowth Good questions. But I still can't think of suffering as an inherent feature of this "reality" that I am experiencing. Maybe suffering can be reduced, or even removed, and still one live in this same reality. But good questions. Food for thought!

Good question. No answer!

@Tim R I would love that episode!