UnbornTao

I wanted to start a shared contemplation with you: What is experience?

@Someone here Zen stick for you.

You're engaging in speculation. Again, you need to get over this tacit assumption of yours that something you haven't investigated is impossible to discover because of a predetermined outcome that you hold in your mind. It isn't discovered until it is discovered. And I'm not saying it will be known as an answer; I'm just encouraging real openness. You might as well start with what language is, and how it is meant to represent experiences, but that's for another thread if you want to open it. For now, you're invited to focus on what experience is, not what you think about it. Avoid abstraction.

Start contemplating something already.

You're talking about things other than consciousness, which isn't madness; it's just being conscious of what is already true. An unprecedented openness might result from that but those are functions of mind, and activities. If that were the case, how come awakened individuals generally seem to be freer than most of us? Hey, it might turn out to be the other way around -- consciousness being the recognition of inherent wholeness at last. We may be getting sidetracked from the main topic, though.

Yep, tricky subject. I like this, although it doesn't seem to point to what it is in and of itself.

I see, thanks. Exactly.

With or without an explanation, are we clear on what is being pointed at? Language will be used. Besides that, it is about getting what experience, in this case, is; insanity has little or nothing to do with it. So again, what exactly do you mean by "this"? The body? A perception? Feeling? A sense of awareness? A sense of being an internal "one"? Sensation? This present moment? Emotion, perhaps? Conscious experience? Feeling present and existing, but as a vague or undefined "space"? What you are? But what we're tackling now is experience, rather than self or existence, so that's that.

It might be useful as a model, so if you notice it benefits you, that's a point in its favor. In addition to that, we could consider what each of these things is for itself. For example, in order to act, the only requisite for that is intention. To pick up a rock, you pick it up. Planning to pick it up, pondering about picking it up, stressing over picking it up, are activities that often get in the way of a simple action. Of course, this then involves commitment and discipline for more complex pursuits that require more process to be accomplished, but the principle is the same. Just a thought. So: What is meaning? What role does pain play in our search for pleasure? How does discipline come about?

@Natasha Tori Maru @samijiben We should look into what concept is.

"This" can be anything and everything. Are you even clear on what you are referring to by that? Yes, we already think that we know what experience is. In fact, we live by taking our perceptions at face value, assuming they are true reflections of reality. But beyond the usual mind-fabricated answers, do we directly realize the nature of anything? The claim here is that we don't -- and that it is indeed possible to have a breakthrough into the reality of things. You must hold that doing so is possible, though, otherwise there's no room for questioning.

"Prior to" as in the source of, or base for, it. I'd say that, by definition, what is prior to experience can't be experienced -- or rather, it isn't an experience. Say awareness is where experience originates -- What would we do with that? Another thing: we seem to live as if perception precedes experience, but what if that isn't the case?

What to keep and what to discard? Skywind will discard the ancient combat system, it seems. I think it will also include a "purist" mode without quest markers. 2047 can't come soon enough!

Espabila Pedro.

That's the best place to start. Progress! You are essentially saying "it is not possible to grasp the nature of experience." I understand the irritation, though. The purpose of this thread is to recognize that the truth of experience is currently unknown to us, and to open up as a result. It isn't meant to "enlighten" us, although it wouldn't hurt. The point is precisely not to dissect concepts but experience. It just so happens that the medium used for that is written communication, which makes the exchange trickier.

What about the sense of self? There's no perceptive organ for that. I propose that much of what we consider to be experience is more conceptual in nature than we currently are aware of, whereas experience may be something else entirely. Is there something within experience that isn't a sense or a sensation? Do we even experience an object as it is, or do we rather experience how it relates to us? Look at an object you like. The liking itself isn't a perception or experience of the object, even though these -- the liking and what we may call the interpretation of the object -- are both commonly put under the same umbrella of a singular "experience." You're making sense. I wouldn't consider the self to be at the source of these activities, but maybe you (what you are), as @CARDOZZO alluded to.

It's not about having a definition but an insight. Not the meaning per se but what it is. That's what we're tying to work out here. Since we already live within the distinctions "experience," perception, etc., then it begs the question what those are. The distinctions aren't mere abstract notions that we cognize. It is neither linguistic nor tautological. What are they, really? One of the goals here is being able to experientially differentiate between these in a precise manner. Intellectually, we think we know what these are but in reality it is likely we mush them all into the vague label of "experience." You encounter an object; it turns out that you feel attracted to it and it has positive associations and memories relative to you -- use this example. Might edit the response.

Sounds good. And what is the nature of either? In this case, experience. For example, how do you see perception and experience?

Not sure, although I'd rather keep the discussion focused specifically on what experience is. When you say "this," it leaves a lot of room for confusion. When we say that we have experience, what do we mean by that? And from that contemplation, we start to make new, finer distinctions within experience. Another angle to investigate this: What's the difference between experiencing something, perceiving something, and interpreting and making sense of something?

Good to hear!

What is that something, and is it actually happening for yourself? For example, when perceiving an object, do we experience what it is? What is it that comes up for us in that encounter, relative to that thing, say, a banana? What if your self is happening to experience?

I'm personally looking forward to Skywind. A remake along those lines made by a third-party would be worth a shot imo. I'd say the world, story, lore and characters are the "soul" of the game, as opposed to some of the ancient gameplay mechanics.

I mean experience as in experiencing something, the occurrence of experience, not as expertise or knowledge. I say this because of the picture you posted which seems to be more related to the latter. I'd say that's the same question -- clarifying what it is, and thus isn't. Hey, maybe it is absolute, and in such a case this would be inconceivable. It seems as though we conflate perception with experience. Something perceived seems to come prior to experience, which might come about as a process of interpreting and making sense of sense input. Perhaps. Also, again, speculating, awareness isn't experience. It might be that awareness is at the source of experience.

A sense is experienced, so that doesn't seem to be it. What if self is the ancillary process here, a result that comes about after experience, rather than the self being the foundation for it?

I'm curious: How to approach a remaster (or remake) of such an old game? How would you reimagine the experience? Many fans seem to be opposed to the idea, thinking that it would sacrifice what made the original special. I think it'd be worth a shot.