Telepresent

Ok, so are we saying love is a completely 'other' experience? Because I know time, and fear. So if love doesn't share that stage, are you saying it can't manifest in the same place as time and fear? Cos if so I'm fucked

@now is forever What would you describe energy as? I don't mean "for work" as in the capacity to, say, run a social media stream. To my understanding, energy is the capacity to work. Work is the capacity to move. Producing a light of X lumens requires X+Y+Z energy, because X energy is converted to heat, Y to light, and Z to sound. The total energy is the same, but the execution changes. So if you're guiding energy, where are you guiding it?

So why bring it up? I see two options: 1) you don't have this and want to be above it to justify not having it. 2) you don't do this and your girlfriend is upset. I'm sure there are other explanations, but if it's not an issue why write about it?

@now is forever can't tag you so see above

@Jack River But isn't the energy of desire the same thing as the energy of fear, or love, or depression, or anything else? The feeling/manifestation of it is different, but surely energy is energy, no matter what form it takes? Can it be we are confusing pure energy (the potential for work, which cannot be created or destroyed, but only transformed) with an energetic experience?

@now is forever ok, that's cool, but what are they to you? Literal divine entities? Archetypes? Ideas to focus on as you pray or chant? Real or imaginary? 3D or XD? I guess my question is about energy. I read a lot about energy, none of it pointed, specific, or helpful. If, as you relate, the chant is about these energies, which tie to these god-beliefs, then great! But again more detailed thoughts will help me ?

@now is forever What are these gods, in your understanding? I don't know this stuff and I'm curious. Can you outline what you're talking about for a newb? Thanks!

Bigger and more important yes

Yes

@Hellspeed Hi. As someone who doesn't do any of this kind of work, would you be kind enough to explain in layman's terms what the system is and what balancing it means? Thanks

@David Turcot Hi David, I hope you're well? Rather than tell you what you should do (which I can't) or tell you who to follow (which I can't), I wonder if you'd be good enough to share a bit about what you've done, where it's led you, and where it hasn't? I certainly haven't been searching for 20 years and would value your thoughts on the whole journey / game / business / mess! Thank you

@Your place at Heart Agreed, for the first two (or maybe three) books. And bits of the Jed Talks. Theory, Dreamstate, & parts of the Jed Talks promote belief simply by the fact that he is describing shit which - if true - cannot be described and he knows it. Leaving only idea and belief. His books are very tricksy in how much they look like one thing on the surface, but with a little critical thinking / non-literal interpretation, become something much much more meaningful, deep, and significant. The great paradox is trusting the man who tells you not to trust him, going as far as to hiding his name and claiming to express truth through fiction

Perhaps it would help to focus in by defining what is true, as close as you can define it to your experience and belief. You'd have to be completely honest though: not repeating what you've heard or read from anyone else unless it is 100% truthfully your experienced understanding of existence. That gives you a ground you can then explore. You're 100% that this is the truth. How do you know? Have you proved it all? If so, then there's no problem: you've found the truth, congratulations! You can ignore anything that anyone says to the contrary. But if you find that there are areas you don't know with absolution, but believe to be real, then pick it apart. Why do you believe it? Where did it come from? What emotional need is it meeting? (You want to find your subconscious? Follow your emotions) Firstly, as fun as mindfucks and insights can be, that's not (in my experience) where the significant changes in understanding come from. They come from an incessant little chip-chip-chipping away at all the things you thought you knew, but it turns out you were believing all along. Secondly, you do have an identity. It might not be in external signifiers, but you do - otherwise you wouldn't be asking this. Follow the emotions, find what offends you or upsets you. What you're afraid of. What rules you have about how the world should be; how you or other people should behave. If you think you don't think people 'should' anything, then find an ISIS beheading video and see if your emotions agree. Find out what significant things happened to you in your youth, particularly ages 0-5, which may have shaped your understanding of what you are, should be, need to be, and how the rest of the world works. Dig deep, dig hard, dig personal

@seeking_brilliance Thanks. It's a useful thing to remind myself of

A lot of people seem willing to tell other people how they should / will / eventually evolve into / must feel, think, experience. It seems to be prevalent in this forum. I'm sick of it and think it's total bull. Discuss.

@seeking_brilliance That was Hector. Hector is my chimp (as described by Steve Peters in The Chimp Paradox). That is, the pre-rational part of my mind, concerned with chimp-y things: sex, status, hierarchy, winning, safety, survival, ownership, danger, etc. There is also HAL, the part of my mind capable of thinking in rational and more abstract terms. Telepresent (in terms of mind, at least) shifts continually between being more HAL or more Hector, usually neither entirely one or the other, but Hector has far more influence, impact, and control than I might like. Hector is very black-and-white in his worldview. This is true of chimps in general, but especially so for Hector as, due to influences from when I was very young, he is now codependent. Codependent people have trouble seeing the world in shades of grey - everything is an extreme. I am either the best person in the entire world, or the worst; perfect or evil (and in a great piece of doublethink, I'm usually both at the same time). Hector also struggles to regulate his reality against other people: believing himself to usually be in the wrong, if someone else says "the world is like this" he will take that on board as truth. Even if HAL might know otherwise, Hector's belief is stronger. Which is why he reacts so badly to 'should' - he doesn't have the ability to put up a psychological or emotional boundary to protect him from that. If he 'should', but doesn't/can't/won't, then he must be a failure. Most of the time Hector is fearful, and generally avoids confrontation. In fact his bar for confrontation is so low, very often the other person involved doesn't even realise a confrontation is taking place! To them it's just conversation. But unless both parties are 100% in harmonious agreement, to Hector that is confrontation. Hector sees that as a threat, and so goes into fight-flight-freeze: usually fleeing or freezing. It's rare that Hector fights. The difference is when he is drunk. Then he is much more likely to slip over to the "I am better than everyone else" pole, and therefore much more likely to fight. And because he only deals in black-and-white, everything that is not 100% harmonious becomes a fight. It's really rather exhausting

Hey all. Sorry for being aggressive yesterday: alcohol + personal frustration = terse aggressive Telepresent, apparently. @Serotoninluv Is bang on the money. Insecurity on my part that maybe I'm going absolutely nowhere, and people saying should/must etc. triggering that insecurity. It does come from a genuine place though. I think the reason it feels "wrong" to me is that telling someone how they 'should' be can be an invalidation of their experience, which can lead to self-blame or frustration when they can't do what they "should" be able to. I've had a lot of that in my life and it's led to a lot of self-resentment and feelings of failure and not being 'good enough'. Ah, it's all my bullshit really. Big case of projection

Cos I feel like it's "wrong". Discuss

@cirkussmile But I want to be right and fuck you!

I love you. I hate you. Fuck off. Gimme more. If we can't learn from this here, where can we. Now fuck off. And love me. Make sure you tell me how much you love me. But how much I've changed your life

That is literally - EXACTLY - the same reason I'm making a point to come back to you. I want you to feel those things about me. How silly is that as a feedback loop? But - and this is important - it's not a silly thing to feel. It's a natural thing to feel and don't be mean to it x

Why did it bother you enough that you had to come back and clarify what you meant? For me? For you? For someone else?

Fundamentals of what? If enlightenment means Truth (as it does to me but I accept maybe not to you) then functional humanity actually has nothing to do with it. Truth is pre- and post- However, it will probably be fucking unpleasant to live without the things you list. Just know where your focus is. Truth can't give a single solitary shit if you die in agony. That's how truth works. If you are dying in agony, then that is true, and no wishful thinking will conquer it. So find your focus, and go from there

@Annoynymous What do you have to say? (I'm not saying you're wrong - far from it - I'm just more interested in using this space to hear your ideas. Cos,let's face it, we've heard Leo's)

Follow the thoughts and feelings back. Are there assumptions about who or what is causing the thoughts / feelings? Are those assumptions accurate? If you meet an "I don't know", can you explore it and work it out? Or come up with a new hypothesis to explore? Questions, not answers. That's the way