Salvijus

Seeeee.... I like this. I liked your post bro but look. There is such a thing as a false cognition, false perseption. And than once you see the false perception. Than you see the true perseption. Like seeing a snake and feeling danger. And than you see the truth that the snake is a rope. Re-cognition. Realization of truth. Truth will set you free. Free from what? Free from delusions and fear.

Hmmm.. okey. Actually this thing happens to many people who start meditation but the explanation is usually different than yours. When you meditate energy goes into your head strongly and then there are blockages of ego that resistrict the flow of energy properly and it becomes like an uncomfortable pressure somewhere on the face. Ways to remove this is. You simply continue meditating and that pressure will move to the forehead and will become comfortable and not noticable anymore. You can do this through meditation or others do it through hatha yoga, hatha yoga makes the flow of energy clean and balanced without any resistences. If I'm right and if it is what I think it is. This pressure won't go away as you grow it will only intensify and go to your forehead at that point it will be very comfortable. Purification of the mind helps because ego is the thing that blocks the proper flow of energy. You purge some trauma and the energy flows better. Psychedelics helped you to experience what it feels like when the energy is blowing at a very intense rate. Then that energy just brakes all the blockages and just goes into your forehead where it's not even noticable. Thats how I see it. I could be totally wrong tho ?

That's not the point. It's clever but it's not enough. True fearlessness is zero fear altogether. When you see the illusion that the snake is not real. Is there any room for fear? Only if there is doubt. Perhaps the snake is real. Only then fear is possible. Fear and illusion go together. Awareness of illusion destroys all fear. If there is even a spot of fear, that means there is a spot of false belief and indentity. Full trancedens of a false identity leaves no room for fear. Sometimes the recognition of false identity is partial and not full than the fear will become weaker. But if the recognition of illusions is total. Fear is impossible. There has to be an element of illusion for fear to exist. There has to be an element of unawareness for fear to exists. If awareness hits the peak, illsuions are gone. Fear is impossible.

I agree. Rejection of fear is fear itself. But that's not what I'm saying. Please read more carefully what im saying. I'm saying seeing all fear is caused by illusions. And seeing through unreality of illusions will end the illusions and fear. It's not an I that bocomes fearless. It's a simple recognition that snake is not real. And fear is a joke. Because death doesn't exists.

No. Fear is psychological, fear is not natural. Fear is caused by the belief and illusion that I am mortal. Once this illusion is seen through, fear is gone. Because truth is that there is nobody that dies. Like saying being afraid of ropes is natural. No. The fear of ropes is caused by the unawareness of the truth, that rope is not snake but a rope.

No. So wrong on so many levels. Illusion itself implies that it's not real. How can I be something that is not real? I can only believe it. But it will never be true. It's like saying rope is a snake. No that is only a belief and illusion. The truth is that there is no snake. But it has to become experiencial. Than fear of snake is gone. It's not partialy gone, it's not weaker. It's gone 100%.

I'm not the ego. And I'm not the illusion. Illusion causes the fear of mortality. Once this illusion is seen through, fear dissapears.

Nahm can we settle this once and for all? Does this recognition that the self is not real end the fear of dying or no? You already agreed that the recognition that a snake doesn't exist end the fear of a an illusionary snake. The realization that the self is not real, and the fear of mortality that is caused by this illusion, when it is seen through. It dissapears. Who attains this realization? Nobody. It's a consiquence of awareness. Like who attains realization that a snake is an illusion? Nobody, it's a consiquence of having eyes and becoming experiencially aware that snake is just a rope. Awareness ends all illusions.

Okey so anybody has any last words? It's late already where I'm from. I'll be going to sleep now. Regards to all who read this thing ?

It's actually getting somewhere I believe

@Breakingthewall fear is impossible when all illusions are seen through. For this awareness is needed. Not intelectual understanding.

What causes fear? It's a belief that I exist and I'm mortal. If recognition that I don't exist is total, then fear is impossible. Total is the key word here. If there is awareness of the false belief in I but there is still fear. Than recognition is not yet total. Some remnants of illusion are still causing fear.

Yea there is an illusion. Illusion means you believe in something that does not exist. The belief is still there, and the belief is causing fear. Awareness of this false belief removes the belief and the fear.

I didn't say "somebody" got liberated I sayed, fear has ended and that's it. You are being too picky about every word I say. ?

@Nahm no bro insight is not an illusion. A clear recognition that the self is not real ends all fear of mortality. I think you can't deny this. I can't see you making a good objection to this statement.

@Mu_ i resonate with it. Not sure what to comment about it tho. I feel it's a different topic altogether. Everything is always perfect. Yeah it's cool. Just not a today's topic maybe ?

That's because your awareness of the illusion of self is not total yet, it's partial. When awareness hits the peak, the illusion of self becomes apparent in it's totally. And then fear is gone. The level of awareness decides how much delusion it penetrate through. That's where degrees of awakening come from.

Open thoughts. Fear of mortality can only happen if you're in delusion. If there's a clear awareness that there is no you, fear is impossible. Yes, no?

Thank you. So this insight liberates one from the fear of illusionary snake, right? In the same way the insight that self is not real will also remove the fear of mortality, is that not so?

Sorry I think my reply was a bit confusing. Ill try again. Illusion of the doer exists, right? And this illusion is causing fear right? So is it possible to have an experiencial not intelectual realization that the doer is actually not real? I say yes. How? By becoming aware of the illusion. Awareness of the illusion will destroy the illusion. Who will become aware of the illusion? Will the doer become aware of this illusion? No. Awareness will become aware of delusions. It's not something that the doer does. It's a consiquence of intense awareness. I think this is a clearer answer.

Aaaa i see your point. But why does the illusion of doer exists then? So everybody can understand that doer is a belief. But why can't you drop the belief that you're a doer if you know it's not true? Everybody understands that the snake is just a rope. But why do you still feel fear when you see the rope? I would say because it's only intelectual. A real insight that comes out of awareness removes the belief in the doer on experiencial level. And removes all fear of death. Would that make sense to you? It's not enough to understand there is no doer, it has to become your insight.

@BipolarGrowth yeah i wasn't talking about the end of pain. I was talking about the end of resistence. I think I was very clear on this. I would question this. I don't think you understand what no fear of death really means.

@Nahm idk bro... i don't think you're being fair here. I ask you a simple question. Isn't it true that there is a fear of snake and awareness that a snake doesn't exists removes the fear of snake? Is this insight not real? Why do you say this insight is illusion?

Yes there is nobody to do anything. Doer does not exists. Doer is the illusion. But how to brake this illusion? This illsuion of a doer is causing all the problems. To realize there is no doer one has to become aware of this truth totally. This insight is not a consiquence of a doer doing things, this insight is a consiquence of an intense awareness that penetrates the illusion of the doer. Makes sense?

Avoidance of pain is survival. Fear of death is survival. They are the same. Caused by the same belief that I am mortal. Only when there is a ralization that I can't die because I don't exist. Fear of death goes away. Logical, or no?