Zenterus

I was clearly joking.

@Natasha Tori Maru You don't think is risky to date colleagues?

@Ulax is the only person on the forum who I've consistently seen exhibit Tier 3 and 4 level thinking without contradiction. @Leo Gura himself privately confided in me that he often reaches out to @Ulax for advice and to validate his awakenings.

I'll be sure to add this feat to my LinkedIn. 😉

It is inherently pointless to engage in discussion with those of you who already have an ego identity around your spiral dynamics stage. You're so identified with it that me calling you out is almost like a personal offence. Therefore, you will try to debate me, and get me to logically break it down for you with examples, analogies and justifications, while you rigorously scan my statements for fallacy and inconsistency. And your prayers will inadvertently be answered cause, even though Im a humbly perfect specimen of a man, I dont care to sit down and formulate an entire analysis of your psychological make-up while going through your infinite post history in order to find quotes to justify my claims. However, let's say that I do feel generous enough to grace you with that level of effort and provide you with a fool-proof thesis; what happens then? Will you throw your hands up and concede that all the years you've spent propping yourself up and inflating your own sense of superiority to others was an absolute delusion? Will you kneel before me, your Lord and Saviour, and open your mouths wide to receive divine, humble, non-homoerotic punishment from yours truly for your transgressions of doubt? Of course not! You will fight tooth and nail to avoid enduring such ego-death -- if a thesis from a random forum member could even be powerful enough to inspire it. You will rationalize, debate me to death, call me a narcissist (which is absolutely baseless) and ask for more evidence for you to desperately scan and attempt to poke holes in. It's useless to engage. I merely expressed what I observed, others seem to have observed the same. Those of you who disagree and feel called out, debate amongst yourselves. My last thought is this: If a majority of people around you are calling you annoying or an asshole or, even, kind, you probably are exactly that, no matter what you think of yourself.

I'm 28.

And what if I do, babyboy?

@Carl-Richard Bruh.

@LordFall I hear your points and I do agree that there is more credibility to be had when discussing certain aspects of reality. Titles and background make sense in those contexts. At the same time, titles often fall short in those contexts as well. You can be a professor at MIT and still suck at your job, while someone who doesnt have those same titles is more qualified for the position. Furthermore, just because someone is in a position where people value their time enough to pay for it, doesnt make that person inherently wiser or valuable, really. Human social psychology is easy to exploit when you know what you're doing and what people often value is very contextual, easily malleable and often illusory. However, I dont care to argue with you about all that. At the end of the day, this is about spiral dynamics. Its not about economy, finances, dating, psychology, engineering or whatever. SD is a cognitive development model and my critique of how people use it on the forum still stands. 95% of the forum is clearly still miles away from Tier 2, which is apparent from their posts, yet theres a good subset of them that somehow think themselves higher. That is my point and my observation. Clearly many seem to agree.

@Carl-Richard You don't have to do that. Be you. Just dont create an ego around an SD stage, as if it's somehow objective. Also, humility is a big sign of maturity.

A software engineer can demonstrate their understanding objectively through their results. A self appointed Yellow stage forum member cannot, even worse when their worldview explicitly contradicts their so-called "stage." It would be one thing if someone expressed high level wisdom that pointed others to their advanced maturity and development; it is entirely different when someone identifies themselves as higher on the spiral as a way to validate their worldview and perspective over others. Your credibility comes from demonstratable results, genuine wisdom and applicable knowledge. If one relies on an external factor, such as a Spiral Dynamics title, to inject a sense of authority and validity to their perspective, such a person isn't as developed as they would like to believe. Like, why do you need a sense of hierarchy to have a mature discussion about various aspects of reality? At the highest level, every perspective is just as valid as any other. Some might be more sophisticated and more applicable, of course. However what makes them so isn't the person expressing them saying "Oh, by the way, Im Turquoise." Instead, those perspectices become apparent when engaging with them; no external title to validate them is needed.@LordFall

@Davino This post is a piece of art. Thus, you must interpret it as you will.

@oOo Took you a minute, but you finally almost said something not littered with pseudo metaphysical nonsense. Proud of you, man!

@oOo The level of ego and condescension in your response speaks for itself. Thank you for being another reinforcing example of what this thread is about.

Dude, every comment of yours I've seen is littered with nonsense. You can't even construct a straight forward message that can be logically digested by the people on this forum, yet you somehow think that you are at Coral. I know you're probably gonna twist that as you being so above it all that your communication no longer resonates with the average person, but I would suggest you settle on that conclusion after you see a psychiatrist first.

@Miguel1 The technique is only a technique, just how a knife is merely a knife. Any negative consequences are a result of the actions of the person wielding it. If you're a loving man, who has pure intentions, it is your responsibility to pursue the woman of your desire because you know you have value to bring. This technique is only an aid towards that positive outcome. If you're a piece of shit, then yeah, you're gonna abuse the shit out of this and end up hurting a lot of people. The technique itself is irrelevant.

Your favorite retired PUA is back at it again with a new banger for y'all! Today we'll be discussing the secret ingredient that takes your interactions from just "decent" to fucking elite. Adding this element to your game will reduce your flake rate significantly and will ensure that you consistently are in a position where the woman of your fancy is willing to invest in you equally or even more so than you're investing in her. This "technique" is founded on the psychological principle that human beings are more motivated to take action when they're on the verge of losing something than gaining something. When you have a comfortable job, you're less likely to want to spend valuable energy looking for a better paying job and going through the uncomfortable interviewing and onboarding process in pursuit of that. However, if you found out that your boss was considering firing you, then you'd instantly perk up, get your CV together and start applying to job postings vigorously. The avoidant in a comfy relationship, is more likely to exhibit their avoidant tendencies when they're validated by their anxious partner's affections and investment. However, when their partner is fed up with their avoidance and starts pulling back, all of a sudden the avoidant starts reciprocating all the warmth and love that their anxious lover was desperate for. Human being are more motivated by loss than by gain. You tend not to appreciate your health until you're sick. You don't appreciate your parents until they're on their death bed. You don't appreciate your life situation until you're in a much, much worse one. This is what Fear of Loss -- or the "Fear of God" as I like to call it -- does. It inspires people to take action and is the secret to pick up consistency and respect within a relationship, assuming you're providing enough value that the recipient would be afraid of losing. Now, in a normal social scenario, where you're seeing the same people over and over again, instilling a fear of loss isn't needed. Reason being that you have a lot of time to build attraction with someone and then even more time for them to emotionally invest in you. Plus, if you're smart, you're not focusing your full attention on one person, but rather you're diversifying your attention by socializing with multiple people, which makes your attention more valuable when someone who is attracted to you is on the receiving end of it. In pickup, though, we don't typically have that much time to build the attraction and emotional investment to the level you could in a reoccuring social context, like in the example above. Therefore, we have to rely on creating very strong, polarizing emotions in the woman and using those emotions as curency that we can exchange for emotional investment. And, yes, this is the purpose of high level game. If all you're doing in your game is approach, be fun and then close, you're missing a big step in your process there. A woman has no reason to show up on a date or pursue you if she hasn't invested anything in you. You matter to her as much as a mosquito in Alaska. This is why we do push-pulls, for example -- its actually one way of instilling the Fear of Gawd in the girl. By giving her positive emotions and then contrasting those with negative emotions, the woman becomes conditioned to value your positive emotions more and, thus, is willing to be compliant to you in order to get a taste of your validation again. Which means that if you're playing the game properly, you should give just enough positive emotions in the beginning for her to feel the contrast when you pull them back and, from there, you should keep your validation scarce in order to encourage her to invest more and more. This might sound manipulative to some of you, especially to the women here, but this is a necessary evil. Men have an inherent emotional investment in women -- and the prospect of intimacy as a whole -- because their "attainment" is naturally scarce and fickle to us. Sexual and romantic attention, on the other hand, come in abundance to women and therefore men have to proactively differentiate themselves from the masses and put value on their attention. Now, gentlemen, hear me and hear me well: This technique is predicated on your ability to provide genuine value to the woman. If you havent done the work to develop yourself into an authentically cool and attractive guy then none of what I have to say here will help you. You can do push-pulls all day, but if your vibe is telegraphing neediness towards the girl, it wont matter. You have to do the work first, there ain't no magic pill. Furthermore, every technique or tactic that I share here is risky. Meaning that they all could result in you losing the girl. Don't start blowing up my inbox with death-threats if that happens to you. This is the price you pay for a girl's heart and absolute infatuation. If you're not willing to lose the girl, you cannot have her -- at least, not fully. Do the inner work to align yourself with abundance and trust in it. The same behaviour that loses you a girl today, will earn you a unicorn tomorrow. Anyway, another way of instilling the "Fear of God" in the girl is by disqualifying her. This is severely underutized by guys even though it is one of the most important and powerful things that you can do in an interaction. So here you are vibing with a girl. She feels flattered by your approach. She is excited by the spontaneity and fun of the situation. And then, just while she's drunk with all the positive emotions of the moment, you ask her if she works out and she says no. The moment she utters the word, though, there is an instant shift in the vibe. You don't verbalize it, but she can feel from your body language that you're disappointed and are considering walking away. She might not have cared if you did this 5 minutes before, but after all the positive energy she has received from you, losing that because of something SHE DID/SAID hits her ego like a truck and now she becomes invested in getting back on your good side and getting a taste of those good-feeling emotions again. Disqualifying is super powerful and you should be using it in almost all of your interactions if your aim is consistency. And it doesn't have to be applied in a manipulative way either. No matter how awesome a girl is, there will be some differences in values between you two. It's only natural, you're both individuals. Thus, do not shy away from conveying to her that there are a few things about her that you honestly don't like or disapprove of as it only further encourages investment. Caution: Do NOT become a disqualifying spammer. Some guys completely over use certain techniques once they realize their utility. This works against them. Game techniques should be used sparingly and subtly, they're not a replacement for being an actual cool dude. So if you think that spamming this technique is the secret to success when you're lacking in so many other areas.. you're wrong and this post aint for you. The final, and most potent way of instilling the Fear of the Lord in a girl is by her seeing that other attractive women find you attractive. Gentlemen, if you're in a social environment and you meet a girl who you have chemistry with, do not dull the interaction by overstaying your welcome. In situations like these, you should capitalise on the chemistry that you've created by excusing yourself on a high note and going off to talk to other people -- including men, not just women. Give her the space to wonder about you, to watch you from afar as you charm other people in the environment, to fear seeing you potentially hitting it off with another girl. Of course, you want to come back and talk to her again. Don't just abandon the interaction altogether, but create that tension in the girl. Also, it's better for you if you have multiple options to choose from in the environment rather than putting your eggs in one basket. So its win win win on all fronts. Even better, would be to adopt the role of a social connector and introduce people to each other, including the different girls who you've had some chemistry in the environment with. This works best when you're not too physical with any of the women and are more subtle with your flirting, otherwise you'll be labeled a player and filter out the good quality girls for the more club-rat types. Fear of Loss is such an important concept. It's the difference between a girl actively investing in an interaction VS her being non-chalant and indifferent. It's the mechanism that inspires your girl to treat you with absolute respect in a relationship VS her becoming so comfortable to the point of actively disrespecting you. It's the secret to consistent, high quality results. And yes, as I've alluded to multiple times, this is a dynamic that you should carry along in a relationship as well, but for that to be the case, it cannot be a mere "technique" -- this needs to become WHO YOU ARE. Become a man of abundance, a man who is naturally selective and doesn't over-invest in a single woman just because she's pretty. Become a man of strength and discernment and let go of your attachment to sex and female validation. Once you do that, the game opens its arms to you for a warm embrace. Results come easily and consistently. Women treat you with respect and keeping them becomes a foregone conclusion. You become "that" guy. Leave your questions below.

@meta_male @Miguel1 @something_else Gentlemen, I have no interest in defending my initial post nor challenging your viewpoint around the validity or utility of the technique outlined. I respect your opinions and perspectives, but at the end of the day, direct experience is king. I've been working on this aspect of my life for way longer than you guys have and in a much more hardcore manner and, thus, I am inclined to stay firm in what I know to be true. Whether you agree with it or not is meaningless to me. This post is written for the odd person who needs to see this, who will find value in the information provided and move a step closer to his goals as a consequence of implementing it. @Valach But to answer your question: I did ONE class and then it got cancelled because a few people unsubscribed and the men to women ratio fell out of balance. I will try to sign up again in October.

I'm in a grinding phase in my life. My days consist of going to work, coming home to study or going to the gym, journaling and socializing on the weekend. Everything that I do serves a purpose. I go to work to make money, I study to be able to ascend financially in life, I journal in order to gain self understanding and develop deeper self-love, I workout to be fit and healthy, I socialize to build my tribe and find love. Even rest serves a purpose. And I'm going crazy. I have plenty of adventure in my life, that's not the issue. The core of this is that I feel behind in life and I must fight to get ahead. Finances are an extra point of interest for me, right now. My health and fitness life are on point, my social and dating life are still works in progress but I'm confident in my skills to attain what I want, my emotional life is also another work in progress that I'm confident in. However, I want to live in a better place, have my own car, be able to travel more and have a job that I'm proud of. I don't have rich parents, I'm in a country where I don't speak the local language and, thus, I have to work three times as hard. I accept that. I revel in that. But, again, I'm going crazy. Don't take me for a fool, though. I'm very much aware that attaining these things won't make me happy. The purpose of it, alone, is what fuels me. Be that as it may, my heart yearns for something that I cannot name. I cannot find the words to describe it. But the fact that I'm somehow lacking it, hurts me. This is a necessary part of my story. I have to go through this dark phase. It is a cannon event. But, damn it, man. I'm going crazy.

@Valach Brother, I feel like in your pursuit to heal your emotional wounds and escape the pick up paradigm, you have done a complete overcorrection to the other extreme. The reality is that, yes, these are natural behaviours if someone with high self esteem. However, someone who doesnt have high self esteem, isnt selective and doesnt embody these naturally attractive behaviours wont get the results he craves by "being themselves," as all they will end up conveying is that they're low value. The way towards growth, I found, is by teaching guys the behaviours that high value men exhibit, having them model those behaviours, get positive reinforcement from the people they interact with through these behaviours which further cements those behaviours and the mindsets behind them in their identity, while at the same time doing the inner work to let go of limiting beliefs, insecurities and trauma. You keep doing that on repeat and eventually you reach a point where this shit is effortless. But telling a guy who has all the wrong behaviours and belief systems to "just be himself" is ludicrous. I get that you're over this whole pick up thing, but social skills are called skills for a reason and in pickup, especially, you need a stronger skillset than in regular social contexts.

I personally keep my exes on social media unless they block or unfollow me. I don't delete all the pictures, only some, but I will absolutely delete their number.

I remember it like it was yesterday when I transcended Yellow into Turquoise.. It's a very personal story, though.

Of course it matters, duh. An ugly guy has to play the game a lot smarter and strategically than a chad. But both can get results if they know what they're doing. Being physically unattractive doesn't mean you're cooked. It just means you need a strategy that allows you to convey yourself at the highest level, aka social circle and social media game.

@Olaf Attraction is not a choice. You don't have to tell a girl that you like her for her to like you. If you're conveying attractive things, she'll like you. But that's assuming that you are conveying yourself in an attractive way. I'll have to see you in action to be able to determine that, though and unfortunately I couldn't yesterday.

@aurum Totally agree with this. But this is something you can also do with pure cold approach. This is basically my strategy when I go out. In the beginning, I talk to everyone, guys and girls, attractive and not attractive. An hour or so into the night, I look like a social guy who a lot of people seem to know and like and I have a "cushion" of a few people who are my "friend group" for the night. From there, it's a landslide because of the social value established in your favour within the environment.