Zenterus

You're right and wrong at the same time. In my 10 years of pickup experience, I've learned that women assess you HOLISTICALLY as a man with your high value BEHAVIOURS being the biggest attraction draw initially. Your lifestyle is actually secondary initially -- although it does play more of a role when you're together long-term. Now, it is actually easier to convey yourself in a high value way when you're indeed a high value guy who truly lives the part -- lifestyle, success, preselection -- but it isnt always the case that they come hand in hand. You can be broke and have the right mindsets and the right look and vibe and have an amazing abundance with women as a consequence. On the flip side, you can be rich and successful and be such a loser behaviourally -- such as not setting boundaries, not leading, being a pushover, ungrounded, etc -- and get used by women left and right because they dont respect you but you are useful because of your success. This is how you end up like Will Smith, or Jeff Bezos, or a very good looking guy who I knew back in my Uni days whose girlfriend would blatantly flirt with me in front of him. Of course, develop yourself, your fashion, your look, your money, your lifestyle, etc. All of those matter. But if your personality is weak, you will only get used.

How can something so biologically stimulating and enticing result in such shallow experiences? I've spent the last 10 years of my life fighting to satiate my Lust. A decade I've spent in the game: cold approaching, optimizing my dating and social media apps, building social circles, prospecting, sharpening my communication skills and learning about high value behaviors and flirting and escalation and so on and so forth. And I may have enjoyed only a handful of the vast experiences I've accumulated throughout my journey. I've written in this forum before about how I struggled so much to transcend the hedonistic player lifestyle and how it kept pulling me back in, despite leaving me more and more numb each time. Well, gentlemen and gentleladies, I'm happy to say that I genuinely feel like I've taken a huge step towards that direction. I'm holding myself back from saying that I've fully transcended it as not to jinx it However, with this new-found inner peace that I've finally realized within myself comes a lot of wisdom. These days, I spend my time studying, working, contemplating, enjoying the present and being. I don't feel a strong calling to fuck or to pursue women who I don't feel a particularly strong potential for a real genuine relationship with -- which basically means I'm not pursuing any women right now -- and, in fact, I seldom even watch porn or masturbate. Although when I do actually do those things... I notice an interesting phenomenon.. Despite me knowing that the pursuit of sexual and hedonistic desire is all smoke and mirrors through first hand experience, when watching porn or reading some erotica or fantasizing some hot scenario during acts of self-love, I still feel a part of me craving this overwhelmingly "sinful" lifestyle. A part of me glamorizes sex and its pursuit. It glamorizes the idea of partying and dealing with different girls and taking them home and using them for their body and having dirty unprotected sex and finishing up inside them or on their face or on their feet -- I'm a man of culture, you see -- and doing it all over again with young and old, hot and average, black and white and asian and tall and short and every permutation of woman that is out there. There's something so alluring to it. Thankfully, I have enough experiences and wisdom to know that that is only the more primal, impulsive, lizard-brain parts of my psyche speaking to me and I pay them no mind, yet it fascinates me how one of Reality's most tempting and biologically seductive aspects, is also one of its most unfulfilling and, eventually, self-destructive aspects, if engaged perpetually. Being that sex hits our most primal of instincts and releases dopamine and oxytocin and there's the power-elements, the validation, the intimacy, the "love" etc, etc, you'd think they'd be more to it; but in the end, it's almost like a cosmic joke. It's like the Devil pranking you, or something. Now, don't get me wrong.. sex can be amazing when it's coupled with genuine intimacy, connection and integrity and people do have wildly different relationships to it. But for me, I found it to be one of my life's biggest distractions and stressors -- due to pregnancy and STD scares, weird situations with various girls, etc. In the end, all I want, truthfully, is just one amazing woman who I share values with, a connection with and who I love deeply and who loves me. That's it. Everything else is a fallacy.

Bro, what I would've done in this situaiton is say some shit like "You have a son?!" And when she responds in an affirmative, I'd say "Where do moms that look like you come from? I'm asking for a friend." That would have gotten a light chuckle out of her. From there, I'd just introduce myself, throw in a false time constraint such as "I dont have much time to talk, I'm meeting friends for bowling later and gotta run some errands before" and then ask her about herself and build the interaction for a bit before going for her number. But as it has been said earlier, you should definitely focus on building general approaching momentum since you're on the spectrum and keep the process as simple and streamlined as possible. While the above scenario I described is very smooth and context-dependent, the likelihood thaf you'd be able to do that everytime without massive experience is low and you'll end up stifling yourself if you attempt to do so with every approach. Go out, on the street, or in a club/bar if your autism can handle it (some autistic people get overwhelmed in such environment) and just approach 5 women everyday. Keep in mind, that in nightlife settings, you probably will have better results as an autistic person. Reason being that people in a bar or club are more loose cause of the party vibes and are therefore more forgiving of social errors. In daygame, you're dealing with sober women, in a sharp state of mind, who are way more sensitive to your lack of social calibration. Just something to keep in mind.

Beautiful discussion. I had a great time reading through @Valach and @LordFall's perspectives. Also some good points from @something_else ! My personal experience aligns more with @Valach, I must say. I've done a lot of cold approach, online dating and, yes, social circle game and got plenty of sex from all of these avenues along my 10 year exploration of game, pickup, dating dynamics and women. Each of these paths has something unique and exciting but that rush eventually runs out, in my experience and it ends up becoming compulsive and a distraction from deeper work that needs to be done. One of my insights throughout my journey, was that having a lot of sex with various women is actually disrespectful to my body and sovereignity. Everytime I have sex with a woman who I care very little for, it betrays my higher self and hurts my spiritual well-being. I dont enjoy it nearly as much as I used to and, thus, have to transcend it now. But at the same time, it was a journey I NEEDED to go on, in order to develop myself as a man. Be that as it may, I do think @LordFall does actually have a point. In my current stage, I do value a lot of depth and shares value in my relationships with people and building a social circle of likeminded individuals feels way more fulfilling now than ever before. So I can see how combining that with sexual "conquest" and purpose could be fulfilling to some men, because the women that you are sleeping with are women who you have shared experiences and values with, not just some random club girl you pulled that one night. However, even then, I personally have found the hedonistic lifestyle to be very unfulfilling. Having solid platonic friendships with men and women who I respect, without ever escalating that further -- unless real romantic feelings develop -- feels more rewarding to me than casual hookups. But again, everyone is different, so best not to project your experience on others.

I disagree with the common dating advice of "the phone is only for setting dates!" While that may be true for a very small subset of women, in my experience, you're missing out on a lot more potential prospects by just asking the girl out without some back and forth texts. You should absolutely joke around, or flirt a bit over the phone before asking the girl out. It communicates non neediness, a laid back vibe and further highlights your personality outside of the initial interaction. Be that as it may, dont take this too far. You should absolutely be moving things towards a date, asap! I would have asked the girl out at least 2-3 times in the messages above.

Thank you for your question. My main pursuit, this period, is my finances and education. I wanted to be a comic book artist when I was kid and pursued that hardcore until about a couple of years ago. However when I realized how cut-throat that industry is and how little return there is in relation to all the work and passion you pour into these various projects as an artist, I lost my vigour for that pursuit. So now I'm pursuing a different career and thus educating myself again. This is but a stepping stone, though. I want to be creative and I have plans for achieving my unique vision. But those plans do require me to have a solid education/job to fall back on, just in case. So that's what im busy with. Also investing in my health, friendships, emotional wounds, and other forms of personal development, as always. How about you? I see you're really focused on the social circle stuff.

I've arrived at a similar point. After 10 years of hardcore pickup, I'm completely burnt out on dating and women. I remember walking through the mall after having a very weird and ambiguous dream that alluded to the fact that I was chasing phantoms in relation to dating. I asked myself: Why do I want a woman, in my life? This was a profound question that I've been grappling with for some time now as I haven't been feeling very motivated to do pickup yet I would still engage with it from an unconscious mindstate. However, the answer to the question above was even more profound that the question itself: I don't want a woman. Blew my fucking mind to come to that realization. Women have been my life's biggest distraction. A distraction from my goals, my emotions, my emotional wounds, my solitude, my peace. In the spirit of the above revelation, Im taking the whole of June off porn, dating apps, social media, girls, etc. By the end, I hope to have come to some new profound answers as to what role women are meant to play in my life, who I am beyond my previous identity that has brought me til this point or -- if I don't find the answers I need -- then I'd be happy extend it further than just June. So far, a lot of repressed emotions have been bubbling to the surface: loneliness, anger, resentment, pain, sadness, regret. But I find the experience of them absolutely beautiful.

Keep crushing it man! I did similar "challenges" a few times throughout my journey and I found them very transformative! After about a week of consistent action, approaching becomes complete second nature. I could strike up a conversation with anyone, anywhere, and I was SMOOTH AF. No compliments, no direct game. I just had a vibe about me and the flirting was so subtle but effective. Results were well worth it. I say "challenges" in quotations because I never did it consciously. It was more like "I have some free time, I want to get back into hardcore dating again, so Im gonna talk to x amount of girls everyday until something comes of it." So its was a very loose structure, but again, well worth it! I dont read journals though, so I'd appreciate you updating your journey on this thread instead.

@Ramanujan Brother honestly I'd recommend you start with "The Natural" by RSD Max. In my opinion, it is the best program for beginners as well as intermediates going to advanced. It teaches you literally EVERYTHING that goes into pickup. There are other programs that delve deeper into optimizing specific aspects of your game (verbal, vibe, lifestyle, texting, etc) but compared to "The Natural" they are supplementary.

I had one of the most psychologically interesting dreams I’ve had in a long time. In the dream, my mom, my sister and I went to hell. Not in a dramatic fire-and-brimstone way, more like it was some kind of building or place you could visit. I am merely a child in this dream. At some point they left me alone on a different floor. I remember them reassuring me that it was safe and that they'd be back soon, but once I was alone, strange and frightening things slowly started happening around me. I called out for my sister and could hear her answering me from another floor, so I knew she was somewhere nearby, but she never came. I wasn’t completely abandoned, but I was still alone in dealing with what was happening around me. I became more and more afraid as weird eery phenomena were increasing in prevalence and eventually I started breaking things around me almost as a form of retaliation. Like I was trying to reclaim power or stop myself from feeling weak and trapped. Then the devil appeared. Oddly enough, he didn’t torture me or attack me. At first he reprimanded me for breaking things, but eventually he became almost like a companion. I remember cleaning up the mess while talking to him and how comfortable I felt in his presence. At one point I looked in a mirror and my entire body was pale white, almost powdery. There was also a strange white spot on my lip that briefly made me panic, as if it were some kind of disease or STD, but then calmed myself down and I convinced myself it was nothing. After that, the dream shifted into normal day-to-day life, except I was older and the devil followed me everywhere. He looked almost like a white shadow. He was constantly present beside me yet ackowledged by no one except me. Eventually I fell in love with a girl, and I realized that if I wanted a real relationship with her, I had to get rid of him. At first I tried fighting him whenever he appeared, especially when he tried to interfere while I was with her. Over time his interference became violent and we would end up in these anime-style battles where I was trying to protect my girl and myself from him. But over time I realized something strange: He couldn’t actually hurt me. His strikes would just phase through me. Over time, I also realized that he also couldn’t hurt her. In fact, the more I stopped reacting to him, stopped fearing him, stopped acknowledging him, the weaker he became. He would still lash out sometimes, but it stopped affecting me. I'd just ignore him and eventually, over time, he just faded into the background and disappeared. I woke up from that dream with a lot of clarity. I know exactly what this dream means and what it is pointing me towards. But I wonder, what is your interpretation of such a dream?

Owen has been saying this forever now! I personally always thought it was BS, but then wondered how come no one from his team or coaches has ever even rolled an eye at such a statement. It sounds to me like this is a cult psychological tactic to brand himself as a leader with hidden powers, as cult leaders tend to do, without being too "out there" with it. Thoughts?

Havent heard of him but based on what otbers have written here, I'm very curious to start! What are your top recommendations?? (Please add a brief description of each so I can decipher which ones are the most relevant to me.)

@oOo @Leo Gura Y'all are forgetting that Owen has been in pickuo for like 20 years. Meaning, casual sex. And when engaging in casual sex and massive socialising, you're gonna get sick. Its inevitable. No matter how good your diet and habits are. Dont think its a genetic thing either considering that he used to get sick before the 15 years, by implication.

I understand that it must be very addictive to seek out dark truths about the world (even though the red pill is rarely accurate to reality, as I stated above) but considering your limited experience with dating, I would advise you to stay away from that shit. All it's gonna achieve is make you jaded and resentful to women over time, if it's not balanced with real world positive experiences with women. If you care to actually attract high quality women in your life then go out and interact with them in person and through trial and error you will learn all that is relevant for you to know. Everything else is just a waste of your time.

Started reading it and got bored not even a quarter into it so I dropped it. All that shit is useless information. Rollo Tomasi himself wasnt some grand player and I guarantee my body count is way higher than his, so I don't know why people hold him so credible. Is some of the red pill stuff true? Sure. But most of it is bullshit, and poisoning your mind with all the BS so you can get a few nuggets of gold is foolish. All I care about is what works down in the field. Fuck all the theories and speculation. What. Actually. Works. If I can't apply it to the field and get positive results, then its irrelevant to me and a lot of the red pill ideology is just that: Ideology.

I can usually feel it, personally, by her vibe. But I also have strategies to fish it out. If valentines day is nearby, ask: "What are you doing on valentines?//Wha have you done for valentines?" If she wears a ring, even if it isn't an engagement or marriage ring, tease her: "Oh my god, you're married?? You're so young!" That'll usually results in some back and forth where she's just joking with you, but then you can shift it to a more "Wait, for real? You're married?" And then she'll give you the real answer. Another one: Ask "My 'friend' the other day told me that she would never move in with a man ever! Apparently most girls think like this, she said. What do you think about that?" If she has a man she might casually mention it here, like "I live with my boyfriend so I disagree lol"

Also, do keep in mind that game varies a lot not only from person to person but also from culture to culture. A lot of typical pickup advice, doesn't work as well in Europe where I'm at. In Europe, being NORMAL is the way to go and a lot of push pulls and DHVs dont get you far. We have a more comfort-centric society here, while in America (and other countries) there's more emphasis on conveying value.

The best Game method is the one you create after years of trying out different models. Game, at its core, is about conveying a high value personality, which is a very personal thing depending in the guy. A good looking chad can approach super direct and get immediate results, while a conventionally physically unattractive man will have to to approach in a more indirect yet engaging fashion that buys him enough time to convey other attractive traits that might not be immediately apparent to the girl. Some guys are very social media savvy, while others arent. Some guys have a stronger personality, while others dont. Some are just horn dogs that want to fuck anything moving, while others are more selective. Who you are and your goals in dating will greatly define how you approach game. I've learned from everyone: Mystery, Todd V, RSD Max, RSD Julien, Madison, Jeffy, Karisma King, Ag Hayden, even fucking JMULV. I've tried out their philosophies, saw what worked for me and discarded the rest and kept doing that until I developed a holistic method that fits me. Learned a shit ton from 'natural' friends as well. My system is as followed: High Value Open Tease/Flirt Build Emotional Investment and Compliance Close Simple. Of course, I've been in this for 10 years, so I could write 10s of pages expanding on the above bullet points.

@VioleGrace Forget about Sasha, there's nothing to emulate there if you're serious about this shit, other than the fact that he's approaching, which is the bare minimum if you want results. This is a huge topic, but basically when you're approaching a woman you should be grounded and unreactive first. Meaning that you speak at your own pace, you have relaxed body language, steady eye contact and a voice coming straight from the diaphragm. If you ever meditated for 20-30 minutes, you'd know the feeling: just extremely present without feeling the need to perform or react to your environment. Every movement, every word, every expression is intentional and deliberate. At the same time, you should ooze a fun sensual vibe. So you're free flowing, self-amused and fun in your expression, but there's also a strong sexual aspect to it, as well. Think of any suave fictional character that you may know of, coupled with a strong dominance, boundaries and unshakableness. This is extremely hard to describe with words, but here are some habits that will help bring that forth: 1. Meditate daily for 20-30 minutes (Groundedness) 2. Cut out porn completely and limit masturbation to once every 1-2 weeks MAX (Sensuality) 3. Approach a lot with the intention of having fun talking to girls rather than to get a result for the first 3-5 interactions in a session. (Fun) 4. Have a list of standards that a girl has to meet for you to pursue her. Those include internal traits as well as how she needs to behave while interacting with you. Read the list daily. (Dominance)

I want to hear from the women here mostly, but also from the men who have successfully attracted a high quantity and quality of women in their lives. For many years, I believed the mantra "Looks and Money don't matter as long as you have good game," which was popularized by dating companies such as RSD back in the day. While that was a great delusional belief to get me started on approaching women and getting busy, over 10 years ago now, I have since learned that that wasn't entirely true. My results with women have definitely dramatically increased since taking care of my appearance more (grooming, fitness, fashion) and as I worked on other areas of my life too. Yet even then, I still bought into a lot of pickup artist concepts, such as being a Lover (the fun, short term, dominant, masculine guy that women have quick meaningless sex with) over a Provider (the boyfriend, the stable and secure type of guy with a good job) and as a result never cared too much about having a lot of money in relation to dating. However, now, I'm at a weird place in my life. Casual relationships are no longer doing it for me and I have decided to pursue the highest quality of women that I can in order to settle down with one and live happily ever after. These women are glamorous, have good jobs, very pretty, are posted on instagram with Louis Vuiton bags and Gucci and Versace. Of course, not all of them are like this, but I have noticed that the most beautiful women do seem to have their lives very well together. And, naturally, this aroused a lot of insecurity in me as of late. I'm not super secure financially -- dont even have a drivers license -- which is something that I'm actively working on. This has never been a concern for me before, as mentioned, but now that Im actually interested in a long term relationship, it's starting to weigh in on my confidence. I've dated VERY attractive women before, women of high status in my city and even attracted local celebrities, so i know it's possible but I still feel insecure about it. This is magnified further cause a woman I've been seeing lately started being slow to respond to my texts after coming over to my place for the first time (we always went to hers until then), and my mind is constructing this narrative around her losing interest because she realized I'm not financially more abundant than her. Who knows, though. I know some will say "dont worry about women now and just focus on your finances" but I don't want to reject myself and, to be honest, I want to prove to myself that I can do it regardless. So my question is as follows: How does money influence a man's attractiveness in a woman's eyes? Especially now that women seem to be way more financially secure than most men?

Non conformity is also conformity. The only way out is to do what one wants to do just cause one wants to. I do agree with the goldeb rule you shared though.

Nah. Not yet. Im still young. I will try to find an all around 10 first. If that doesnt work out then I'll see about your advice.

Uh, I actually do care that my friends are top tier as well. I don't hang around men I don't deeply respect on some regard. And yeah, my experience dating top tier women has also been that they suck at being in a relationship. They expect the world but suck at reciprocating. But in my experience, that can be "trained" in them. These women are not used to being told no or being put in their place, so when you do that as a man, it hits them 10x harder and will fight to keep you as you're such a rarity to them

I dont host events with hotter girls. I fuck hotter girls.