Dodo

Yeah but that is for you! From your perspective! What if I told you the Universe can make it occur other than how it is, for you it will still be how it is , simply because you have a limited perspective and can only see one thing at a time The universe has more depth than us and it can make the impossible even if you can't. To say that it can't is to say you know the Universe's perspective! Far from the truth tho. Well i am not saying it can for sure, I am saying I have seen things to lead me to believe it. Im asking, what if you saw the game from a higher level, and see how the universe changes things constantly! But you only see a continuity of "how it is" from our lazy perspective as being here now always!

@Mason Riggle The problem here is you are having an investigation over yourself and then project the same qualities and attributes to the entire universe. It is a common problem in nonduality - you just assume it is you, because you have no other point of reference .

What about peeing? Why is thinking so important, it is such a small portion of our experience! There is a pee-er. The one out of which the pee comes! Aha! But have a look at this here - the game of life. The original entry can be different, causing different results in the game later on. In some of those the game continues indefinitely, in others it completes quicker. In third, it can create a whole other game of life on a higher level(the video posted) Now what I claim is that perhaps the Universe or God is more advanced than you and actually has a choice what game of life to put forward and where it will be headed. You can tell me all about how your thinking comes out of nothingness and not a thinker, but you cant tell me why events in the world happen as they do. You can't tell me why we use electricity, how we are advancing the way we do and how we "evolve". You can tell me only about your direct experience, you cannot tell me anything about the game of life. You can talk to me about what its like to be one character inside the supreme game of life, and honestly, we have no clue what it is to be outside of the game of life, thats how huge it is. Here is a 2d representation:

I am one to say you cannot map reality, and that any map is wrong, it can be relatively right, but reality is too mindfucky to map

ugh, that's just nit picky semantics. You are not one to say whether the universe has a choice ;D think about it, you have authority only over self and even that we do not know completely... semantics and word games ! we all know full well what ego is and what egoic reactions are. I can see them in myself and others alike .

thats not a contradiction, because it might love to be any way it likes, which means both your suggestion and mine can be simultaneously true. By saying any way it likes I am not saying it "likes" I just mean it can make things appear any way it wishes/desires/wants. Im talking as if it is a conscious being because thats how I feel

another super philosophy to keep ego in place! but there is a remedy as they say ego is not to be gotten rid of, but seen through as illusion and then it falls away naturally!

The universe can make it appear how we dont like. I dont know her personally, lol, but I assume she has a much bigger wisdom than the entire population of earth as a collective (let alone one man)

The universe can make anything happen. Individual can not make a single thing happen. The universe can make it appear any way it likes. I've seen its powers at play and ive seen miracles, but I have not seen one person perform miracles, except charlatans and tricky magicians. Im not saying its not possible, but I havent seen!

this is a super philosophy to keep the ego. Comes from ego. You cant say more ego means no ego because it is how it is. Just no, stahp it, ego, stahp it.

Be sure, you are not alone... Love is unity.. On any level.. Could be unity of souls, or of people, or of atmans.. Points... Emptinesses in different locations within absolute emptiness / infinities inside absolute infinity... Beings created by a loving God that values Love above all else... You name it ? if you are in relationship you have to acknowledge the Truth in the other, as well as yourself.. I guess the being element...

Ok but can you accept possibility that thats only one way its experienced over there and another way over here or elsewhere.. What im getting at is the healthy realisation of ultimate not knowing, rather than claiming an ultimate knowing. I agree you might have reached an ultimate knowing of Yourself (doubt cause infinitely deep), but thats all you have authority over.. Basically i can be you in your worldview, but allow for other beings to claim their own independent existence also, since you cannot know another's experience you cant really talk about it with confidence!

To me all you're saying sounds like one entity attempting to say that they know/understand the ultimate reality. Just another ego trip in my view tho! It seems like we are attempting to boil down reality into something really simple like this. And using words like nothing and everything which are pointers to things that cannot be experienced and hence everyone has a different projection when they are mentioned... All those projections not it.. But still we use the words.. To seem like we know, our idea of nothingness and everythingness cant be wrong.

Ok I mean I can entertain this as a mental exercise, but its really not experiential? Or is it? To me it seems like the king is naked and we are just scared to call it how it is... I stubbed my toe. What's the problem with duality? Its the ultimate nondual thing to accept duality and play ▶

yea but when you stub your toe, where does nonduality go. Is there really no one who stubbed their toe? Who goes to the toilet? Awareness does not go !

That would be the case for a robot, not for an alive being! You misperceive what human is.

I agree no free will in the past. Anything that happened happened there is no point to think about how it could be different, unless that knowledge can be applied now for the better. Otherwise its a waste of time. But the scalpel of no free will ends there. Scalpel of no free will cannot enter the present moment, as it is too small for it. If you think my thoughts appear and then I write them, that's misunderstanding of how my mind works. There are so many things happening, but one thing is certain. Everything that comes out of the present moment is fresh and new. Even a regurgitated thought of the past is fresh and new. And I can write thousands of words without even having a conceptual thought in my mind. The fingers just go about the keys and write. Anything I write to you is fresh and new. And yes, I did not gather what im saying from an infinite database that im aware of beforehand so I can say I've chosen every word with complete freedom of choice. Thats not what free will is to begin with. Its a misperception of free will that you have to know everything in order to be free in your choice.

Ok but you see what you're saying is that you have decided, from your own free will to not "try to be how you're not" because its more of "how you are" if you did that. So that means its perfectly cool to do that. Why are you choosing not to? Free will. More of that free will, but you unconsciously think it's not free, because you've not explored to the limits and beyond them. (or you have and forgot) I can be on both sides of this argument. It's about perspective and thinking that any one of the two points of view has won the argument is not correct.

Do you constantly think about beating your heart or breathing? No, but you do it. You don't do it? How do you know you're not the one who does it? Maybe you have a wrong identification. Maybe you are the one who beats the heart and breathes the breath as well as the conscious stuff too.

I think you miss a point too! You are talking about being free to choose what you dont want... Ofcourse you are free to choose what you dont want. Many do it every day. They go to work, even if they dont want. They do millions of acts that they do not want for different reasons. I would be better at showing you freedom of will in personal conversation, because you will be able to see my unconscious movements as well as the conscious ones, seeing that in reality, I am free to do what has not occurred to me, and am doing it already.

The problem here is not that I disagree with you. You are using exactly the same stuff that I have used in the past. So really you are me, but some years in the past. YOu've listened to the same influencers and these things have become like truths to you. But they are not. There is no way of checking other than to say that we already are the same being expressed in different form. But that is nonsensical to say as well, because that would mean the spider that bites you is also you and it really means nothing to say You then. There is no thing that is the same in me, in you and in every insect on Earth (except emptiness itself) . Right now you have an egoic identity which is You. I have another egoic identity which is Me. The emptiness that connects us, is not really us. It is the space in which both of us exist. Saying that my egoic identity in your body would do the same things is an error. I do not agree with it.

No and thats another big question : Why am I a human and not a fish? Is it my imagination is primary to my body expression? If I had the imagination of a fish, maybe I would be a fish. It could be that from your worldview that what I am is the body, and from that body is risen a mind, from that mind - consciousness - then yeah, body is primary and we are all robots... But maybe it is flipped the other way around and it is exactly due to our freedom of will in consciousness that all of this even exist as this complex human form that feels so free ...

You are dissecting too much. I would have added a dot. It could be many different things added to it to make it unique. I ask you who or what these things occur to? It must be me, the one who has freedom of will. Otherwise, it could not occur to me, I would just be a robot that follows the environment. The environment has an impact, but we have freedom element which is rather invisible so you can't really point to it. You will know it if you realise you can create something from nothing in your mind. It can happen with or without occuring to you that you can. You can just notice it! The freedom is the space in which mind happens. And it is infinite... Determinism / no-freewill is a phase and a way to feel good about what has happened. It is true we cannot change the past. Its ok to look at past deterministically. But not at present.

Hi, Sam Harris, but I have been through all this stuff earlier in my journey. I was always arguing against free will with my friends and everyone. I know the tests proposed by Sam Harris and how convincing it all is. Still I can create a thought right now, which does not exist anywhere else. The real question is, where is the absence of freedom? You are absolutely free to think about things that you do not even know about. You dont have to know your next thought for it to be free. I can imagine non-conceptual thoughts and add 1 to it, it has never existed anywhere else. Trust me, if it existed exactly this way before, it was without the addition of 1. If it existed with the addition of 1, I add another 1. Tell me how is there no freedom, if I can think of something that has never been thought of before? Who feeds me this unique and personalised information?

Thats the big question, how to prepare... And who can we really trust for that... What if organised religion is just the way the devil is targeting his sheep.. and making it look like they are saved... But then the sheep follow the shepherd into the slaughterhouse . I really have trust issues and PTSD as if I've been there already... Might be