Hyperion

Good God, these types of threads never fail to crack me up lol. Most people are so stunningly incoherent and illogical in their reasoning, it is truly amazing. Which of course shouldn't come as a surprise... lack of (meta)logical coherence and consistency are the means by which the ego mind keeps itself (un)comfortably stuck in delusion. And so, round and round it goes.

Welcome to the club, lol.

...which automatically nullifies (or rather relativizes) anything you say about it. Even saying "it cannot be defined" is already a definition (aka. conceptual limitation). The fact that God/Reality/Infinity/The Absolute has no opposite means that anything you say about it isn't it... and also it is, but so is the opposite of whatever you are saying. Simple (meta)logic.

No offense, but the idea that you could comprehend the entire unfathomable range and depth of Buddhist methodology/philosophy (and what it implicitly conveys) by reading a few books and listening to a few talks by a bunch of glorified Western spiritual influencers is so stunningly preposterous that I honestly don't even know how to respond. But hey, whatever helps you keep your inflated self-image afloat.

Buddhism is an incredibly nuanced, multi-faceted and sophisticated exploratory system, or rather a wide variety of systems and traditions that - in spite of certain commonalities - offer very distinct methods and approaches. What most people (including Leo) refer to when they talk about "Buddhism" is little more than a grotesquely distorted and dumbed down pop-slop caricature which has about as much in common with the actual teachings of Gautama and his heirs as the ramblings of a modern day ultra-conservative American mega church pastor have in common with the original teachings of Jesus. In fact, Buddhist philosophy is so rich and elaborate that anyone who claims to have fully grasped it is almost certainly just kidding themselves. To paraphrase a paraphrase of a famous Richard Feynman quote: If you think you understand it, you don't.

I would argue that spiritual awakening is neither about emptying the mind, nor is it about refining the mind. If anything, it is about "seeing through" the mind and recognizing thoughts (as well as all other appearances) for what they are: Relative manifestations and expressions of the Absolute. And btw, I suggest you stop fixating on Leo (or any other persons, for that matter). Obsessing over relative appearances isn't really doing you any favors on this path.

@yetineti

One of the most widely misunderstood terms in all of spirituality is the Buddhist notion of "shunyata", which is commonly translated as or at least closely associated with words like emptiness, voidness, groundlessness, nothingness and no-self (which is also known as "anatta"). It is often (mis)interpreted as a kind of nihilistic denial of any inherent substance or meaning of reality; but once you become directly conscious of what it actually points to, you realize that it simply means the following: There is no particular way that reality is. Shunyata points to the fact that there is no such thing as a specific definable ultimate truth that can be fully cognized, conceptualized and communicated through language; it therefore implies that all definitions (aka. conceptual limitations) of reality are nothing but relative perspectives which are partially true at best and downright delusional at worst. Simply put: Whatever you say about reality isn't it - and also it is, but so is the opposite of whatever you are saying. (Of course, the irony here is that the statement "all perspectives are relative" is itself a relative perspective; this is why Nagarjuna, the famous founder of the Madhyamaka school of Buddhist philosophy, pointed out that "even emptiness itself is empty" and therefore cannot be absolutized.) So while shunyata should not be mistaken for an affirmation of existential nihilism (which erroneously tries to attach absolute meaning and validity to the relative concept of meaninglessness), it certainly refutes the notion of a concrete ground or essence of reality that you somehow safely "land on" upon enlightenment. Assuming the existence of such a specific definable essence is in fact a rather clear-cut logical fallacy, since it assumes the existence of something which is both absolute and definable. The simple fact of the matter is that the absolute (= undefinable) essence or nature of reality cannot be different from (all of) reality itself, as should be obvious to anyone who is capable of and genuinely open to coherent (meta)logical reasoning. (Note: When you say that Being is the essence of reality, then that is NOT a definition. Being does not and cannot have an opposite since it is all that there is, meaning that it must include and transcend all possible opposites such as form/formlessness, time/timelessness, oneness/multiplicity, nothing/everything etc. Being is therefore synonymous with the totality of reality. Again, this is not so much an arbitrary opinion as it is a patently self-evident and tautological assessment based on very simple and obvious logic, and I would sincerely invite anyone who somehow feels compelled to argue against it to question their own underlying motives for doing so.) Of course, the inherently attachment-based ego mind doesn't like to hear any of this. It craves and demands ideological safety, reliability and stability, or in other words: a solid, unshakeable ground that it can build a strong and rigid identity on and thereby keep itself stuck in the treacherous comfort of delusion. And so it will compulsively attack, deflect, distort and/or deny anything that threatens to pull out the rug from under its feet and try at all cost to maintain its dogmatic conviction that "reality is XYZ" and definitely not "not XYZ". You will almost certainly see this play itself out in the replies to this post; there will be plenty of people trying to convince me as well as themselves that I am (absolutely) wrong and they are (absolutely) right and argue until they are blue in the face for the validity of relative positions such as "I am a person", "I am not a person", "I am God", "I am not God", "I exist", "I don't exist", "there is a doer", "there is no doer", "all is one", "all is not one", "there are other minds", "there are no other minds", "reality is physical", "reality is a dream", "reality is logical", "reality is not logical" or whatever other perspectives/beliefs they have built their identity on. Now, am I saying that I myself am totally free of this kind of argumentative pigheadedness? No, of course not. I assure you that I can be just as gleefully opinionated as the next guy; denying any such tendencies on my part would be just another dogmatic assertion and expression of deep egoic delusion. Besides, as long as reality is being observed and experienced from a certain first-person perspective, there is never going to be a 100% complete absence of attachment to that perspective, however faint and imperceptible it may be. But once this perspective is clearly "seen through" and recognized for what it actually is, there is now an opening where the gradual transcendence of all rigid ego identity becomes possible; where all relative perspectives are perceived as different sides of the same all-encompassing coin; where energetic contractions begin to soften, expand and dissolve, and where you start to taste the indescribable boundless bliss and freedom of tapping into and merging with the ineffable Divine, which is All That Is. But of course, that's just my perspective. 😘

Yes, I guess you could say that. The thing is that progress in this area is somewhat tricky to keep track of and even harder to adequately put into words due to its often very paradoxical and non-linear nature. To give you a rough impression of where I am at and what I have been through: My initial breakthrough shift in early 2021 (during which had my first (sober) experience of what you might call "The Void") was followed by a pretty intense dark night of the soul phase that lasted for about two years, during which a lot of heavy unresolved trauma came to the surface and which was marked by long stretches of deep existential despair and disorientation; after that storm had finally passed, I felt much more at peace with myself/reality and began to experience progressively more and more heightened and expansive energetic presence and bliss, to the point where life basically started to feel like a 24/7 acid trip... which in a lot of ways it still very much does to this day, lol. Now, would I say that there is "no more suffering"? No, I wouldn't. There is still a lot of shadow stuff coming up and being aired out, if you will; but there is less and less resistance towards it. And the less resistance there is, the more directly and intensely everything is being felt (to the point where it sometimes almost feels like the entire body is being electrocuted by strongly vibrant energetic waves), and yet at the same time the onslaught of sensations loses its harrowing & intimidating/overwhelming quality and starts feeling strangely blissful, at times even borderline orgasmic... again, very hard to put into words. That's why I like to say that bliss is not a specific state or feeling; if anything, it is the acceptance and allowance of all feelings and states. I tried all kinds of stuff over the years... talking to friends and professionals, journaling, hypnotherapy, holotropic breathing, psychedelics, reiki, energy healing, trauma release exercises, ecstatic dance, crystals, you name it. It is honestly hard for me to say which of these tools and methods were effective and which ones weren't; I am sure that they all contributed in their own ways to getting me to where I am today. So really the best advice that I (and probably anyone who isn't a thickheaded dogmatist) can give you is: Just try out a bunch of stuff and see what resonates. I honestly don't think that there are any true one-size-fits-all solutions; there may be certain valid and valuable guidelines, but in the end everyone has to find and walk their own unique path. Which in a way is actually the beauty of it all, if you think about it. Bon voyage, my friend. 🤘

Religion is spirituality put into words (and confused for absolute truth). Plain and simple.

Sure. Guess what, "anything that can be expressed with words is a relative perspective" is itself a relative perspective. Yes, that is a perfectly (in)valid perspective.

Eeeexactly. - In other words, anything that can be expressed with words is always going to be a relative perspective rather than (the sole) absolute truth. Q E.D., my friend.

"This" being... what?

Sure, whatever floats your boat. Such as...?

Acknowledging that anything you can name, think of and experience is always relative leads to true Humility... the kind of humility which is not the opposite of confidence. See, I am not calling these questions silly in order to make myself appear smarter or better than others. I am calling them silly because once you "get" what I (and many others) am/are pointing to, it seems so utterly simple and obvious that the thought of anyone "not getting it" just seems utterly absurd and preposterous. Such as...?

As I have pointed out many times before: Anything that has an opposite is relative. That which doesn't have an opposite is Absolute. Once you truly get this, it will immediately answer all of your silly questions about the "nature of reality"... or rather it will show you just how silly all those questions really are.

@emptiness dancing Hope this helps.

"Dragons and unicorns are real" is a mental story / relative perspective. "Dragons and unicorns aren't real" is a mental story / relative perspective. "My body is real" is a mental story / relative perspective. "My body isn't real" is a mental story / relative perspective. "What can be touched must be real" is a mental story / relative perspective. "What can be touched must not be real" is a mental story / relative perspective. "What can be thought of must be real" is a mental story / relative perspective. "What can be thought of must not be real" is a mental story / relative perspective. Notice a pattern here?

The funny thing is that this is without a doubt the most useless bag in existence, since there is absolutely no point in keeping useless stuff stored away in a special bag. Which makes you wonder... does a bag for useless things contain itself? Bertrand Russell would no doubt be fascinated by this question.

How wonderfully useless. 🤍💛💚💙🤎🖤✨️

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Oh man, this is absolute/relative gold. Thanks for the chuckle!

Sure, rather hard to argue with that. To be fair, in the beginning it was a bit of a drag for me too; it took a couple of years until I really "warmed up" to it and started noticing tangible effects (which then very gradually spilled over into my daily 24/7 baseline; taking up regular Qigong and Kriya Yoga definitely also helped in that regard). And now, after ten years of steady practice, the degree of bliss and presence I experience on a day-to-day basis on and off the cushion is really quite mindblowing. What I can recommend is adopting a 1:2 breathing pattern where you (roughly) breathe in for 4 seconds and breathe out for 8 seconds, which activates the parasympathetic nervous system and keeps you anchored to your breath when you keep (more or less) steady attention on the rhythm; that one was a real game changer for me. Focussing on the third eye area (I.e. the spot between the eyebrows) can also really help. Other than that, all I can say is just keep at it and trust the process. It can feel like a painfully slow and bumpy ride at times, but in the end it is definitely worth it. 🕉 ✨️✊️

Nice. Do you do them often? The only retreat I have ever attended (7 years ago) was a Vipassana retreat in Spain, which for me honestly was the most relaxing holiday of my life. Nothing to do but eat, sleep and meditate... it really doesn't get any more chill than that. Though I understand that for many people it's a quiet challenging experience to go through, but I actually found it pretty enjoyable tbh.

Beautiful. This is a great insight, and I know exactly where you are coming from when you say this. Just notice that "all things are uncaused" is still a relative perspective. As I always keep pointing out: Absolute Truth/Reality includes and transcends all possible perspectives. (And even that is relatively (un)true, lol.) What type of retreat have you been on?